ABS kills?

Why do drunk hicks always say Anti-Lock Brake System kills? Is that because most people don't change their brake fluid so the ABS modulator and m.cylinder gets exploded? Or is it because they think the stuttering of your brakes to prevent a lockup is worse than your car sliding in to an intersection?

I don't get it. ABS really saved my ass tons of times, and I remember a few huge scary moments not having ABS in the late 90s/early 00s when they were not standard on Hondas.

So what's the deal?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    ABS off road makes your stopping times huge, it's horrible off road
    abs on road is unnecessary if you know how to threshold brake, which is superior to abs for stopping distance but you can't expect women or womanly men like you to be able to do it correctly, so abs exists
    it's just more weight, more cost, more shit packed in the engine bay, makes bleeding brakes a nightmare, more complexity that can break, more money to the costs of the car

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      /thread
      not only that but early ABS systems just sucked. Take the 1st gen Tacoma for example, which has been proven to have increased stopping distance ON road than when it was disabled. In fact it was so bad Toyota was aware of it due to so many complaints and they completely redesigned the whole system for the 2nd gen as a result

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        This. I have a XJ Cherokee, and the moment one tire slips, it tries to remove all brakes.

        If you have three tires on bare asphalt (or even two for one channel of tlan icy road), it makes your stopping distance triple when it engages.

        I do not care if two tires are locked up if I can stop on the other two. I do care if all four won't brake.

        Newer cars seem much more thought out with the ABS, but after disabling the ABS in the XJ 10 years ago, I learned defensive driving skills that are applicable to all vehicles.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          same here, shit takes away 90% of your braking pressure

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Yep, dead on. I have a 99 4Runner (so basically the same car) and I've had ABS kick on because of a wet manhole cover and nearly rear ended some minivan because of it. Drop of hat I lost nearly all my braking pressure even after i was well clear of the thing. Dusty trails are miserable too, even downright deadly when it's a goat trail on the side of a mountain

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Early RABS modules in a lot of trucks dump pressure to the rear when they sense it lock and don't cycle til you release the brakes.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >engine bay
      That's cute, try behind the driver's seat. When the brake lines start to rust, you better make sure you get those nicopp lines so you never need to fight the nightmare routing again.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >if you know how to threshold brake
      A myth. Locking your brakes up actually shortens distances. The reason to have ABS is to be able to steer your car while breaking, hence the prolonged stopping distance. Threshold breaking doesn't fricking exist. You're just trying to accomplish what ABS does. The pressure at which your tires lock up changes depending on the situation. If you think you can somehow sense that, then yes, ABS is a waste, but since you do not have sensors that adjust your foot pressure hundreds of times per second, I'll go ahead and recommend you stick to using ABS.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Let's unpack this a bit.

        >A myth.
        It's not. You literally contradict yourself later in your own argument that it isn't. It is widely established that braking force just prior to lockup is the most efficient method of slowing down.
        >Locking your brakes up actually shortens distances.
        Objectively false. There is historical evidence dating back to the 1940's, and widely accepted since the inception of anti-lock systems, that tires stop better when rotating (dynamic vs static coefficient of friction). Otherwise, ABS would not exist.
        >The reason to have ABS is to be able to steer your car while breaking, hence the prolonged stopping distance.
        Partially correct. The other half is that stopping distance is generally reduced with rotating tires than static tires.
        >Threshold breaking doesn't fricking exist. You're just trying to accomplish what ABS does.
        These two sentences contradict one another. Make up your mind.
        >The pressure at which your tires lock up changes depending on the situation.
        Concur, and situations (especially involving variable traction on different tires such as ice) can greatly impact this.
        >If you think you can somehow sense that
        In which anyone who has applied brakes in snow can attest to...
        >then yes, ABS is a waste
        Only applicable to persons that have significant experience in controlling braking in said situations and can demonstrate competency in those situations....
        >but since you do not have sensors that adjust your foot pressure hundreds of times per second, I'll go ahead and recommend you stick to using ABS
        Other than hundreds of times per second being extremely subjective, decent advice for the average driver, in which ABS is designed for.

        6/10 troll post, made me reply.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >It's not. You literally contradict yourself later in your own argument that it isn't. It is widely established that braking force just prior to lockup is the most efficient method of slowing down.
          Functionally, you won't be reaching that threshold. Even race drivers don't do it efficiently, not to mention different conditions at each corner of your car and so on. If race car drivers can't do it consistently, it tends to reason that, for all intents and purposes, threshold braking doesn't exist for you.
          >Objectively false. There is historical evidence dating back to the 1940's, and widely accepted since the inception of anti-lock systems, that tires stop better when rotating (dynamic vs static coefficient of friction). Otherwise, ABS would not exist.
          You know, what, you're right. I misremembered because I live in the north. Threshold braking is worse under certain conditions, which is why snow settings in cars disable your ABS, under gravel or snow, ABS is actually detrimental to stopping distance.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Locking your brakes up actually shortens distances

        • 1 month ago
          Greased Geese

          locking your brakes is fun as hell

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It just grinds a hole in your tires and cripples your brakes

          • 1 month ago
            Greased Geese

            smoke em if you got em

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            my A052 tires are $503 each and can easily be ruined by lockups.
            I have 3 flat spots on each tire

          • 1 month ago
            Greased Geese

            my kinergy sts don't have a milimeter of tread left and costed like 72 bucks a piece, I'll lock them b***hes up and do 180s on the two-lanes.
            I'm going to get reality checked when these same motherfrickers cost 120 bucks a piece only 5 years later.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            "I abuse my belongings like a subhuman"

            If you think it's okay to wreck tires you're using dog shit tires

          • 1 month ago
            Greased Geese

            >"I abuse my belongings like a subhuman"
            kwab

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Damn, that truck might have been cool if it wasn't such a shit heap now

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >truck
            heh

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Right I'm sorry it's a boat. I don't know how I could have missed that

          • 1 month ago
            Greased Geese

            it'd be at it's peak if it wasn't for the shitty 205/70s on it that make it handle like a wheelbarrow

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            no doubt, but anon saying that locked up brakes have shorter atopping distances is dropped-on-head-as-kid level of moronation

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        My motorcycle has ABS and it literally just lets off the brakes for you if it thinks you're going too hard.

        I know for a fact that its locking up before there is a dangerous level of wheel slippage, my Harley will just let off the brakes and glide into the obstacle you're braking hard to avoid hitting. If you disable the module all of a sudden it can stop like 20% better.
        I think its literally just a crutch for people that can't feel the brake threshold like this guy who thinks you don't have any sensors to help adjust your foot pressure

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          What the frick kind of bullshit system is this? My bike just pulses the pads fast like a car's ABS does. You can actually feel it in the levers.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >you do not have sensors that adjust your foot pressure hundreds of times per second,
        Lmao you are moronic, do you have any clue how good human reflexes, sense of movement and balance is.
        You can feel when your wheels are about to slip, same way you do it in corners.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You do not know the actual threshold value, and in lab testing, even pro racers do not beat ABS. You also can't adjust braking pressure on each individual tire. Face it, there's a reason ABS is banned in F1: It's just that good.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            it's not the ABS, it's the gummy tires in combo with ABS:something your avg soccermom would never spend the cash for because they would be changing tires every 6 months.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >makes bleeding brakes a nightmare
      I have to have a laptop plugged in and the janny software from 20 year ago running on windows 7 VM making me do a lil dance on which wheel I go and bleed.
      Threshold braking is EZ, once you get that gummy feel from the tires, like using a penicl eraser and leaving those little rubber worms behind, stop giving it the beans and hold it there. However, having ABS does not stop you from threshold braking, so overall I like it because maybe I will be moronic one day and not do it right, IDK.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Threshold braking becomes a lot more interesting in a small plane where each foot controls a main wheel. Really makes those short field landings interesting when one wheel locks up and starts to slid causing the plane to start darting in the other direction so you have to get off both a bit while putting in some corrective steering. All of this is done with your feet, yoke doesn't do shit on the ground beyond making sure wind doesn't roll you over.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    More unwarranted government interference in my life. Frick ABS, frick seat belts, frick collision standards, frick emissions regulations, and frick the EPA to death.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      meh, seat belts are alright. air bags are overrated. everything else can get fricked

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Agree, but using them should be optional.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The anti seat belt camp is full of the most aggressively ignorant people I've ever had the misfortune of talking to. If the government made a law against suck starting a shotgun, the world would become a better place over night.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Excuse my newbiegery, but I thought racing/car communities had huge hardons for safety equipment. Multi-point harnesses, roll bars/cages, fire suppression systems, kill-switches, etc... what's wrong with more consumer friendly safety systems?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        He's just trying to be "rebellious" by doing petty protest on things that are objectively good and useful because "muh gobbament"

        I can't stand bureaucracy but some morons would set themselves on fire if "the man" says "don't have a nice day"

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        the problem is that your freedom to decide is taken from you, and one bureaucrat decides for the entire country. This is bad from an evolutionary/survival standpoint. Take airbags for example: sound great on paper, but in reality they kill more than they save. Then add in the added cost, complexity, etc. and you’re literally wasting entire people’s lives building them. Not to mention when corruption gets involved they become even more dangerous (Takata). But some bureaucrat mandated them decades ago and everyone assumes they’re safe, so everyone drives around with an unsafe device and some die who otherwise wouldn’t have.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >they kill more than they save
          No they dont

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            https://news.uga.edu/more-harm-than-good/
            Takata airbags killed at least 24 and injured hundreds more.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Neat. Now show incidents involving air bags increasing the survival rates of crashes, for which you surely have the data to compare to

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            ….
            did you not read the source I just gave you?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Racing and any other sport is completely overregulated and most drivers hate it. Most of the regulations in racing are to prevent you from winning. karens have literally ruined all organized sports

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          If you can't win because you had seatbelt on, you never were going to win.

          Oh but I'm sure you " totally coulda done it" if only this, if only that, if only, if only....

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Why do drunk hicks always say Anti-Lock Brake System kills?
    Because early versions actually did suck, but now you have myriad of basedboi youtubers comparing it's newest version integrated with TC and EBD to manual breaking with dubious repeatability, of course the comparison is purely pseudoscientific wank (see Engineering Explained) or again is performed with vastly unskilled driver and/or on a surface chosen to support hypothesis.
    While "real-life" testing may (with big "M") hold some value, pseudoscientific wank with explanations like "there's a pump, some valves, le black box. then when black box detects slip it modulates valves and sheet" are virtually useless since they don't full answer how it works from ground up. besides any shit related to safety systems is likely highly proprietary so academic discussions are pointless.

    to further support it, once i came on paper that compared idling control, even if they were only few strategies described (they were old as shit anyways >15-20 years), paper was still like 20+ pages long.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >have fricked hearing
    >drive pre-abs car
    >lock up brakes one day stopping for a red light that i probably could've gone thru
    >couldn't hear the tires screeching over the loud ass tinnitus
    >it just felt a little funny and i slid over the stop bar
    >"wow i think i locked up my brakes lol"

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >So what's the deal?
    Boomer myths, just like their hate for EFI
    There's based tech, trash tech and based tech turned trash due to bad implementation, ABS is definitely based

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Former machinist then engineer at ABS/TC/ESP plant with plenty of track experience here.
    ABS is amazing. I'll admit I haven't driven in snow since 2010, but generally it's great.
    I still prefer no-ABS to ABS with traction and stability control, so I've been running with the fuse pulled for many many years.
    I wish ABS-only was still a legal option in the US.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Certain modes of ESC make it easier to drive faster, a well designed brake-vectoring unit is far from a bad thing for the typical driver, and is an unsung hero for someone hooning a shitbox that can't fit a real LSD.

      But it's that I can "turn off" TC but it isn't off, and that I can't turn off ESC without unplugging the fuse that disables the entire safety system that I don't like.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I had an emergency braking situation on my bike the other day where the front ABS pulsed. It was the scariest shit looking straight at the rear of that plumbers van as the tire kept 'letting go', then grabbing pavement. At any higher speed, 'layin er down' would be a better option because that shit extends your stopping distance.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    ABS is basically for people that have no driving skills and don't enjoy it. You don't want ABS, particularly if you're offroading or doing performance driving.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    ABS is faster and more efficient than trying to threshold brake.
    If I'm trail braking into a turn at 90mph+ I can't as a driver, take brake pressure out of the less loaded tires.
    If I brake in a perfectly straight line, any road imperfections can cause a lock up.
    while ABS can lower brake pressure on just 1 tire. I can't as a driver so that.
    and I raced a non ABS car for years.

    .t burns through $5,000+ worth of tires a year

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      inb4 some bus rider says
      >abs isnt faster than threshold!
      In a perfect world with completely straight lines, flat roads, and easy math technically yes, the threshold is slightly faster stopping.
      In reality ABS is faster than not.

      But this detracts from what ABS was really meant for, outside of racing:
      It's so you can still steer the car to avoid something while you've panic-full-braked.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        issue is, there is no such thing as a perfect surface.
        threshold braking is kinda a meme.
        is rarely works

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          better off cadence braking if no abs

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            yeah but that's still not faster than just using the ABS to trail brake.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            yeah but you don't really have a choice when your car has no abs

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      True. ABS is also faster to stop car on winter snow/ice.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    sometimes its bad in snow therefore it will literally murder your children in all applications

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >be dodge
    >make reliable pickup truck
    >put non functional ABS in every truck to get past government regulations
    >the people who drive them don't give a frick
    were they based in 1999?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Its funny you say that, I drove one of these for 8 years and didn't even know they had ABS until after I sold the truck. Locked up the brakes quite a few times too kek
      I miss that truck, people like to flip shit at Dodge but that thing was a tank

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I used to hate them but now I really like them, I think they're cute
        When I was a kid my uncle had a 1500 and my dad used to say "hey nice Dakota!" Looking back that's one of the funniest jokes I've ever heard

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      that would explain why my tires lock up in my 04 dakota.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Why do drunk hicks always say Anti-Lock Brake System kills?
    I've never heard a single person say this in my entire life.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Threshold braking larpers everywhere

  14. 1 month ago
    s10fag

    >Slip a little bit or hit a pothole while breaking
    >'NO SLIPPING NOT ALLOWED NO BRAKES FOR YOU'
    >pedal goes to floor and vibrates while you stop decelerating entirely

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Not how it works

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        That's literally how it works for me, Black person. Learn to drive? My car is from 1994, I don't have your computer bullshit. craziest shit I've ever done is drunk drive and speed, mash the brakes at an intersection, car began to shake and continue slipping, and as it was downhill the rain from the previous night had frozen into a nice icy pool by 6am. Might has well have no brakes at all and surprised the summer tires held up that winter.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >old, shitty abs
          Not representative dumb Black person

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >if we just exclude all the bad examples then it’s good

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            A sample size of 6 vehicles? You can't be serious

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You tried to stop on ice you moron, of course it felt like you had "no brakes". You couldn't apply ANY braking force with that lack of grip. ABS does pulse the brakes very fast, yes, you feel that in the pedal, but it absolutely DOES NOT make the force go to zero or even anywhere close to it.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >tries stopping on ice downhill using summer tires
          >NO GIYZ ITS DA ABS KEP ME FRUM STOPE!?!?!?!

      • 1 month ago
        s10fag

        2018 sentra locks up the same as a 2002 tahoe and a 2012 regal and a 2011 dakota and a 2000 park ave and a 2005 odyssey and... Enough examples?

        Tires matter more. Gimmick software for plebs. Legitimately dangerous in relatively mundane conditions.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          There is a wealth of evidence that proves you wrong. Your one subjective anecdote is meaningless and you don't seem to understand how abs even works

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You forget that these drunk hicks are some of the most stupid people around. Just disregard what they say.
    The anons agreeing are just terminal contrarians or hicks themselves.

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