Are simplicity and lightness dead?

The sheer fricking weight and amount of nannies on modern cars are turning me into a sort of unwilling classic car enthusiast. Driving very new cars feels so fricking stale to me, regardless of how much faster and supposedly superior they are. Is there any hope at all that we can return to lighter, simpler times?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    As a concept? Ya, everything is getting both heavier and faster around tracks. More powerful powertrains weigh more, then you need stiffer/heavier frame to handle that power, heavier transmission for more gears, bigger wheels and tires to put that power down, bigger brakes to stop it. The reason this all results in a faster car in spite of the weight is that tire tech has gotten much better, road grip is not linear but it's a lot closer to linear with current compounds, so the added weight helps grip. In short, minmaxing for weight on a modern production car isn't going to get you the best track results. Pretty much all OEMs have figured this out

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >In short, minmaxing for weight on a modern production car isn't going to get you the best track results
      Damn you're stupid. Did you know you were stupid or did you just find out from me? you ever considered what would happen if you put those "current compounds" on a light car?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Ya, they would be on a car with much less power and less absolute grip due to lower weight. It would have better grip for its weight due to adhesion forces but ultimately it would be a slower car

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >what is downforce

          Gets destroyed by M4 that weighs almost twice as much

          >what is power

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >what is power
            Something that ultimately adds weight

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >he thinks weight is the only way to conserve grip
          >he doesn't realize that the shifting mass generates more strain on the total amount of grip
          >he doesn't realize that the fastest cars in the world are all purpose-built lightweight cars
          >he thinks weight is beneficial for cornering, where grip actually matters
          >he doesn't understand the dynamics of race vehicles

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Your association of power with weight is outdated, and there are other ways to achieve grip.
          Cars today can have plenty of power delivery even in a very lightweight package.
          Great power to weight at low weight has been easy for a while now.

          Yes McMurtry only packs in enough energy to do Pike's Peak 1.5 times, or the Nurburgring 3 times at the pace of a car like the VW ID.R, but all vehicles for short form events only pack in as much as they need, and with as lightweight as that powertrain is, all they need is a range-extender that can treat their main battery as a buffer and keep it topped up.
          I suspect McMurtry is working on a range-extender solution that they can package into a more practical vehicle, or more capable race car without adding much weight.
          The problem for them, and increasingly for a number of manufacturers is the rule books not keeping up which is limiting investment in better batteries, or hydrogen fuel cells, at least within a racing context.

          As for OP, on the road the problem today is that cars are getting bigger and heavier, because cars are getting bigger and heavier. Car companies know that when they show a bigger vehicle in an ad people will nearly always prefer the vehicle that is larger, and that they can use design elements that make a car look better proportioned to enhance its appearance and win over hold-outs or increase people's preference for it even more.
          Short of Government Regulations restricting vehicle size and weight for standard licenses, and making heavier vehicles more expensive by making them pay their fair share of road maintenance, the trend isn't going to reverse.

          It is insanity than in many places in the US a lightweight hybrid or electric car pays far more in road fees than a 5000lbs SUV, or a 9000lbs electric SUV. The fee structure almost seems set up to provide an incentive to drive larger and less efficient vehicles.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Tl;dr slow, gay and heavy.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >1hp+ per kg
            >slow and heavy

            Calling it gay is just the same kind of shit that earlier generations of enthusiasts said about Japanese cars, electric starters, enclosed streamlined vehicles, and standardized controls.
            Technology is never going to go back to something that is clearly outclassed, but vehicle weight and size might because they aren't the result of technological progress, but rather the result of corporate marketing and a lack of Government regulation.
            Heavy vehicles should have to be sold like cigarettes and made to look as attractive as third-world cigarette packages.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Frick grip, give me handling

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You want a newer car to feel raw? You are going to need to mod it. RIP if OP is euro with cucklaws

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Nowhere in Europe has restrictions that are legally mandated in America. Enjoy your mandatory reversing camera you fat moron

      OP: Caterham, Lotus, Radical, Westfield, Ginetta, Ultima will sell you a car that does all that. Buy one. Or don't, and be like all the other people who claim to want a proper sportscar but then end up in a 911

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >nowhere in Europe has restrictions on aftermarket vehicle mods
        Lol, no
        >mandatory backup camera as a standard option is a bad thing
        You srs, m8?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          We're talking about stock vehicles out of the factory Black person. Ultimas are road legal in Europe. They aren't in the USA.
          >mandatory is a bad thing
          Yeah it is. Enjoy watching your son transition through your 4k reversing camera whilst you send more money to Israel

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >all this strawman
            Struck a nerve there, didn't I? If you are not a pussy, you can mod a car for the weight and raw feel OP wants, if you are rich you can pay for the same. You are both too much of a pussy wrenchlette to mod a car yourself and too poor to pay someone, so you are going to drive some slow shitbox and continue to cope on DA but posting "muh weight ". All high T males in Europe were killed inww1/2, only the pussies remained and bred. Note that average T levels are much higher among whites in countries like Australia, the US, or Canada that did not have a significant portion of their population wiped our in the wars

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Ultimas
            They're legal in the US, too. Small -roduction vehicles and kit vehicles are exempt from the backup camera law. And crash testing in general.
            Also only in Europe (and California) is it illegal to misgender people and can actually carry prison time.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >kit cars like ultimas are illegal to registerfor road use in the US
            You have been misinformed

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Breh, even a dodge charger only weighs 3200 when stripped. If you think a car weighs too much, you are just being too much of a pussy to do real weight reduction

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Collin Chapman said this about building cars. Buying a car is not enough, anon. You have to build it. Simplify what you can make simpler, and ADD lightness. You have to put it there yourself.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    If humanity doesn't like it so much, why not do a general boycott of new cars ?

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    2,300 pounds.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Gets destroyed by M4 that weighs almost twice as much

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Ya, they would be on a car with much less power and less absolute grip due to lower weight. It would have better grip for its weight due to adhesion forces but ultimately it would be a slower car

        >caring about this shit on the street
        Wew

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        the m4 gets destroyed by the radical sr8 which weighs only 1,500 lbs. what's your point?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Shitting your pants is faster than going to the toilet, too.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          *then

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No, you fricking moron. He's correct and you need to have a nice day.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No, other anon here, he is right, meant to say shitting your pants then going to the toilet too

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It is, which is why professional drivers either wear a diaper or let that shit out in the wienerpit. However, it is even faster to not eat before a race so that you have lower mass going into it.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        mother of baits

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        but an m4 only weighs about 7 pounds

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Also: TCS and all nannies other than hill assist actually turn off and it has an amazing feeling manual. I fricking love mine.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >hill assist

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          If you make your automotive decisions based on hill assist you're a homosexual whether it's a good or bad thing to you.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >I want lightness, simplicity and emotion

      Gets destroyed by M4 that weighs almost twice as much

      >not like that
      BMW fanboys are a stain on the earth. BMW (that makes SHIT pigfat disposable cars these days) will never make what you want. But you keep sucking them off. Maybe do a bit of introspection and stop being a blind fanboy.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's not just bmw, mustangs, camaros, mercs, jap cars. All much heavier and faster than their predecessors, even if you put new tires on the old cars

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          That doesn't matter. This thread is about simplicity and lightness. Something that is almost completely lost on manufacturers these days. The Miata might not be so simple anymore, but relative to others it is. It is remarkably light for a modern car having only gained 150 pounds since the first gen. It's the only mass produced car you can buy that sticks to those principles. Nobody asked you to come in and argue >MUH POWER MUH LAPTIMES MUH BMW

          Go frick yourself.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Kek weeblet slowgaylets are so fricking delusional

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >when your 2 door ragtop convertible "roadster" weighs about 100lbs less than my civic sedan with an entire roof attached
      the absolute fricking state. miata probably doesn't even have a CD player too

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        What year is your civic?mpjv0s

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          A modern civic weights 700 lbs more than a modern Miata. A 90s civic with a gerbil for an engine and a unibody that will collapse on you in a minor fender bender weighs the same as a Miata. That guy is just moronic.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            nah, you're moronic bro

            What year is your civic?mpjv0s

            2004. It has a 1.7L I4 making about 120HP which is low but not as low as the other dumbass thinks and it's not an unsafe car. it's about 2500lbs.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            That's 200lb more, with numb as frick soft handling to boot. You're moronic. I gave you the benefit of the doubt thinking it might be a 90s one but you outed yourself as having a modern disposable shitbox. An old gerbil powered civic can at least be built into something respectable.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I never said my econobox was a sports car just that it's surprising that a roadster in the current year weighs nearly as much as a 2004 civic sedan lol

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes and that's a moronic point. More complex suspension, larger wheels tires and brakes, more engine, a stiffer body. These all add mass, and it's still 200lb lighter. There's areas where you can criticize a Miata, but the current Gen has incredibly low curb weight for what it is. Even ignoring safety bullshit, the 200lb lighter NA Miata had 60 less HP, smaller brakes+wheels and a chassis that requires additional reinforcement if seriously driven. In other to match the ND with a built NA you're going to add 200lb.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Don't bother replying, that anon has brain damage.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Convertibles are inherently a heavy vehicle though, they aren't sports cars.

        All of the structural integrity has to be built through the floor, so instead of a lightweight, rigid box, you get a heavy and still bendy ladder

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Gets gapped by a fully loaded 6000 pound truck with Kleetus and his entire family on board lmao

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Apterra should be pretty good once they raise $billion$ and actually go into production

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    why are there not more kit car companies selling shit like this either as rollers or with 200hp 2l 4pots

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Because that's both slow and a death trap

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        beautiful things are dangerous

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Because nobody here has the balls or the rigor to actually wrench something

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Are simplicity and lightness dead?
    I simply deal with it and live with the cars I want.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    They're dead and DA will try to tell you they hate it but if you mention back up cameras they'll literally defend them to the death

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You could buy an nd2 but you'll probably tell me why they're gay even though they're now faster in a straight line than half of the overrated 90s cars
    You could buy a 150hp 1200lb open wienerpit prototype for 40k new and demolish every supercar on track but you won't do that either

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    kneel.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It somehow manages to be 200-300kg heavier than original car it's named after

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >200-300kg heavier
        >allows for up to 265mm treadwidth
        >80 horsepower over the original
        >stock LSD
        >ABS, TC, Great audio

        worthy trade-off

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >80 horsepower over the original
          I wouldn't say that having 80hp more than an '80s Corolla is much of a flex.
          Also the AE86 also had a stock LSD (as an optional feature)

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >wtf why is a new car that passes modern safety requirements heavier than an early 80s tin can
        Beats me, anon

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I sometimes miss my ol' FRS. Had a lot of fun with that car

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I like them but they weigh as much as a Civic.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    what kind of third world broken English is "adding lightness"?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      it's simply just removing heaviness

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        What if I want to increase smallness?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Just remove biggness.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            How am I supposed to do that without detracting improvement?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Just remove the fat, not the meat.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            but if OP removes himself, who will drive it?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            you know what they say
            taste the meat, not the heat.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Most of the excess weight is from shared platform unibodies. That's why regardless of the moronic takes in this thread, the Miata with it's unibody being a continual evolution from the previous Gen weighs so little despite it being a convertible. Conversely, the new Dodge shitheap will be extremely heavy because ev platform unibody. We're all getting dragged down with the NPC's while the last few stragglers die off.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Dry, flavorless, and tough to enjoy
            What's life without the enjoyable stuff?

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    > Are simplicity and lightness dead?
    Yes. Because the people that actually buy new cars and make car companies money (i.e. not DA) don't want or need light sports cars. They want either trucks, SUVs or luxury sedans.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    car companies are investing tons of R&D to make EVs lighter since that's literally the only thing they can do to increase range. since they all got faked out by adoption, hopefully that will translate to lighter ICE vehicles as they pivot back

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >investing tons of R&D to make EVs lighter since that's literally the only thing they can do to increase range
      Wish that was the case, certainly seemed like they were about 5-10 years ago when BMW was making carbon fiber PHEVs.
      "Heavy" BEVs back then were 2700 to 3700lbs with 60kWh battery packs and 250 miles of range thanks to being super aerodynamic designs.

      Unfortunately they hit on another scheme which is with battery prices falling, and capacity increasing they can simply add more cheap batteries, and make SUVs or generally just put less into the efficiency.
      So now car companies are making BEV SUVs that weigh over 5000lbs, with 120kWh packs, and still only 250 miles of range because more weight and worse aero means more energy to move.
      Lightweight BEVs and PHEVs are almost nowhere to be found. Even Tesla made the Cybertruck and saddled their lightest weight RWD car with a cheap battery that weighs several hundred pounds more.

      The only companies I can think of off the top of my head out there really investing in lighter weight EVs right now are Aptera, and McMurtry.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Last month I got to drive a pimped out geo metro and that shit was bussin fr, it was slow as shit however the engine was screaming like a sportbike and the non hydraulic steering felt so good and the constant reel of rolling over was so kino. Modern cars are like an isolation pod for womens and boring as shit after that experience

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