>Captain Marvel sees a guy harassing her, beats him up and steals his motorcycle in a deleted scene of her movie

>Captain Marvel sees a guy harassing her, beats him up and steals his motorcycle in a deleted scene of her movie
Cruel, unforgivable, utterly reprehensible. Heroes should know better than to beat down on people weaker than them.
>Daredevil sees a guy bullying Foggy, sneaks into his room at night, beats him up, undresses him, ties him up, and throws him into the snow for the whole night to traumatize him for life
Heroic and admirable. I see nothing wrong with this whatsoever. Man Without Fear is truly one of the greatest Daredevil stories ever.

Why are comic fans like this?

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  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Misogyny and fear of women.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      This is false, no one reads comics for this to happen.
      Also, people got angry about the scene in the movie because it is one of the most used tropes in feminist movies.

      samegay

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        In other words it triggers you that a woman might have an upper hand and humiliate a man for being a dick. Sounds like insecurity and case of self-reporting.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous
  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Why can't they both be buttholes, OP?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Because Man Without Fear is one of the most iconic Daredevil stories and I've never seen people point out how this scene is needlessly cruel and weird, everyone just takes it for granted. So evidently, most people who read this don't think Daredevil is an butthole in this. If he can get a pass, why not CM?

      This is false, no one reads comics for this to happen.
      Also, people got angry about the scene in the movie because it is one of the most used tropes in feminist movies.

      samegay

      >This is false, no one reads comics for this to happen.
      And yet most people have no problems with it.
      >Also, people got angry about the scene in the movie because it is one of the most used tropes in feminist movies.
      Name 5 times it happened

      a better point of reference would have been the terminator scene

      This, too. Why were people okay with this in Terminator 2 but blew a gasket when Captain Marvel did the same thing?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Ah, so you're a moron. It's a thing called "context". Matt's framed as already going down a rather psychopathic route in his approach to fighting crime in the comic, given that he's already beating criminals to half-death well before they get to him witnessing the end result of Foggy Nelson getting the shit kicked out of him as well as chased down in a car by a couple of hucksters. Which leaves readers to either consider it a cool moment of making a bully taste their own medicine, or be like you in showing how Matt's letting his more violent desires to stop crime slowly go further out of control as he takes far more unnecessary risks with both himself and the people he beats up.

        Captain Marvel's whole thing was that the viewers only had context for her dealing with other aliens, so one of her first interactions being with a human that's well beneath her both morally and power-wise means that she could have 100% ignored him and nobody would have given her shit, but she intentionally chose to rob him. Which again, is an act you could either interpret as a bully getting their just deserts or a super-powered bully going way too overboard on an impotent loser.

        In other words, you're an idiot trying to equivocate two different stories with two completely different moods, one using it to establish Matt Murdock's mindset as he finally acts on his vigilante fantasies, and the other being a quick joke that just didn't land with people. You're like those idiots that go "PETER PARKER IS A WOMAN ABUSER" off of him having a notably uncharacteristic freak out during a storyline everyone else wants to forget ever happened.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >Matt's framed as already going down a rather psychopathic route in his approach to fighting crime in the comic,
          No he isn't. What does that culminate in? What is the conclusion of that storyline in the story? What is the scene in which Matt explicitly renounces that kind of behavior?
          What would you tell me if I said Batman Year One has similar moments (albeit not as drawn-out) with Batman undressing and tying up corrupt cops he beats? Would you still make excuses that it's about "Batman's descent into darkness" or would you admit that maybe Miller is just a weirdo who inserts his gay bondage kink into his stories about children's characters?

          >Which again, is an act you could either interpret as a bully getting their just deserts or a super-powered bully going way too overboard on an impotent loser.
          If anything, Captain Marvel is closer to what you're pretending MWF is, because the scene in question happens when she's still a ruthless brainwashed Kree soldier that barely even remembers being human, and is probably meant to show her ruthlessness that she will renounce as she accepts more of her humanity.
          >You're like those idiots that go "PETER PARKER IS A WOMAN ABUSER" off of him having a notably uncharacteristic freak out during a storyline everyone else wants to forget ever happened.
          I don't care for that shit either but that story is not one of the most recommended and acclaimed stories about Spider-Man. Unlike MWF.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >What is the scene in which Matt explicitly renounces that kind of behavior?
            There was a scene, right on the page beforehand, where Matt's own mentor Stick denounces him for being undisciplined and useless, and even before that Matt's having a mental breakdown at seeing his vigilante spree ending up getting a hooker killed inadvertently.

            I don't feel you've read Man Without Fear, or you're really misremembering it as some kind of story where Daredevil's framed as doing no wrong when it's supposed to be his Batman: Year One of Matt getting his shit together. That and you're obsessed with a lame joke from Captain Marvel that flopped, for whatever reason. Just let it go, man.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >There was a scene, right on the page beforehand, where Matt's own mentor Stick denounces him for being undisciplined and useless

            Which is why Matt doesn’t join Stick’s tribe of anti-hand warriors and ends up becoming a devil themed superhero. Matt’s tactics and behaviour isn’t actually changed or portrayed as being wrong, it’s just an evolution of his character as he turns into an outright vigilante.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >Name 5 times it happened
        Literally every feminist movie happens something similar.
        >And yet most people have no problems with it.
        false

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >Literally every feminist movie happens something similar.
          Then name 5 times it happened.
          >false
          The comic is extremely well-received. I've never seen anyone criticize this.

          >What is the scene in which Matt explicitly renounces that kind of behavior?
          There was a scene, right on the page beforehand, where Matt's own mentor Stick denounces him for being undisciplined and useless, and even before that Matt's having a mental breakdown at seeing his vigilante spree ending up getting a hooker killed inadvertently.

          I don't feel you've read Man Without Fear, or you're really misremembering it as some kind of story where Daredevil's framed as doing no wrong when it's supposed to be his Batman: Year One of Matt getting his shit together. That and you're obsessed with a lame joke from Captain Marvel that flopped, for whatever reason. Just let it go, man.

          >What is the scene in which Matt explicitly renounces that kind of behavior?
          There was a scene, right on the page beforehand, where Matt's own mentor Stick denounces him for being undisciplined and useless, and even before that Matt's having a mental breakdown at seeing his vigilante spree ending up getting a hooker killed inadvertently.

          I don't feel you've read Man Without Fear, or you're really misremembering it as some kind of story where Daredevil's framed as doing no wrong when it's supposed to be his Batman: Year One of Matt getting his shit together. That and you're obsessed with a lame joke from Captain Marvel that flopped, for whatever reason. Just let it go, man.

          >There was a scene, right on the page beforehand, where Matt's own mentor Stick denounces him for being undisciplined and useless, and even before that Matt's having a mental breakdown at seeing his vigilante spree ending up getting a hooker killed inadvertently.
          You're not answering my question. I know what happens before. What is the actual STORY being told here as you're claiming? You know, with development and resolution? So you say the plot point is that Matt is being needlessly cruel. Where does that lead in the story? How does this important plot point pay off? Does he do something that suggests he's learned the error of his ways? Or does he go further off the deep end? I know for a fact the latter isn't true, the story ends on a positive note. Yet I can't recall any instance of Matt's explicit character growth in this regard. It's just a scene to satiate Miller's own sadism inserted in the story for little to no reason.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            It leads to him getting involved with Elektra, who's explicitly laid out as poisonous to Matt for his growing need to satiate his growing addiction to life and death situations, and a sign of how unfocused and far from his actual goal of working to clean up Hell's Kitchen he's become. If you're looking for a scene where Stick beats the shit out of him for bullying some hapless yuppie, then of course you're going to be disappointed, cause they lump that act along with his general unfocused vigilante activities as part of a generally toxic mindset that he has to shed to become Daredevil by repeated callbacks to a far more actionable and condemnable act in the narrative, that being him getting an innnocent shoved out the building to her death due to his recklessness.

            That's the story being told. The whole of it. Showing Daredevil's extremely messy and regrettable mistakes as he learns to be a more effective and focused vigilante. Going from focusing on more selfish petty acts like bullying his roommate's bullies and putting his dad's killers in the hospital to saving people from the Mafia. I'm sorry if you're so hung up on that one scene, and you're more than happy to be the first one to rush to Reddit to rant about how much Daredevil should feel bad for this and that he's no hero, but the fact people don't criticize it means maybe other people don't consider it nearly as narratively important or as memorable as you do beyond establishing Matt having a weirdly sadistic moment to some yuppie (as opposed to the not sadistic moment of him beating a man half to death with a bag of pennies).

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Isn't it Elektra that just disappears from Matt's life one day, rather than him making a conscious decision to renounce her and everything he associates with it? Either way, maybe you have a point that he technically "develops" by renouncing Elektra and all that shit just implictily comes by association, but I'd say that's not the best way to write character development and could've been done so much better, with much more clarity, without coming across as so weirdly sadistic in the process.
            >it means maybe other people don't consider it nearly as narratively important
            I could argue the scene with the guy in Captain Marvel is not narratively important either, didn't stop people from losing their mind over it. Clearly there was more scrutiny levied at it than at Man Without Fear.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Anon, I’ve been telling you that one captain marvel scene ISN’T narratively important either, it was just an attempt at humor that didn’t land with everyone. You’re comparing apples to oranges and being overly scrutinizing yourself. Anyways, you have an answer for Daredevil, and if you don’t consider it enough then by all means continue to post thread after thread complaining about it. Or you could treat it as just a weird thing Matt did that rubbed you the wrong way and move on. I want to emphasize that I’m not complaining you don’t like scene here. There’s legitimately nothing wrong with saying “Matt made a mistake in being a sadistic tormentor”. You’re allowed to say the hero did something you feel is objectionable nowadays, it’s okay.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            People also didn’t like this scene in man of steel where superman destroyed a truckers livelihood with massive damage to civilian infrastructure because he was being a jerk in a bar.

            Would have preferred he let the guy break his hand trying to punch Clark in a fight outside or something. Let him bring about his own downfall rather than pretty much destroying his career and putting him in massive debt, while also causing major issues for the local areas residents

            OP is just having a weird martyr complex thinking captain marvel is hated for a special reason, as if her actions become less annoying if she was a man. Not true.

            The reason is just that they wrote her poorly, and unfortunately in the modern media landscape writing for “strong women” too often boils down into being absolutely unlikable because that’s what writers think is strong for some reason.

            Things writers consider “toxic masculinity” suddenly become powerful and brave when it’s a female character saying or doing itm

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            How is a broken fist a downfall? The guy just has to get a cast and then he’s back on the road harassing waitresses.
            >Yeah but he had a widdle boo-boo so that means justice was done

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Hands are full of tiny bones and breaking those bones could lead to never getting them to heal correctly and leaving the hand crippled.

            https://i.imgur.com/1dBaCEC.jpeg

            People also didn’t like this scene in man of steel where superman destroyed a truckers livelihood with massive damage to civilian infrastructure because he was being a jerk in a bar.

            Would have preferred he let the guy break his hand trying to punch Clark in a fight outside or something. Let him bring about his own downfall rather than pretty much destroying his career and putting him in massive debt, while also causing major issues for the local areas residents

            OP is just having a weird martyr complex thinking captain marvel is hated for a special reason, as if her actions become less annoying if she was a man. Not true.

            The reason is just that they wrote her poorly, and unfortunately in the modern media landscape writing for “strong women” too often boils down into being absolutely unlikable because that’s what writers think is strong for some reason.

            Things writers consider “toxic masculinity” suddenly become powerful and brave when it’s a female character saying or doing itm

            People did b***h about Superman doing that, what are you talking about?

            I agree. I hated man of steel for many reasons and this was one of them. In fact, to go deeper, I've never liked that scene in Superman 2 where he goes back and humiliates the trucker in the diner, which probably where synder got the idea. Both versions make clark look petty.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            If Superman was allowed to get away with it just six years before Captain Marvel, clearly the writers don't consider this toxic masculinity.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            People did b***h about Superman doing that, what are you talking about?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >Why were people okay with this in Terminator 2
        Because it's a machine, not a human being. You don't except empathy from a Terminator. And when it happens at the beginning of T2, the spectator has no idea Arnold is a good guy.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          And yet something tells me that if you look up this scene on Youtube and go to the comments, most of it is people going
          >damn Arny badass as frick
          rather than
          >good thing this character is a machine, otherwise I would feel bad rooting for him during this scene, but as is it is completely fine!!

          So most people probably don't give a shit if he's a machine or not, they just think the scene is badass. But when Captain Marvel does it that's wrong.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            You can admit you’re a Carol Danvers fan, dude, cause you seem far too assblasted about people not liking Cap Marvel’s scene than anyone here cared for

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    a better point of reference would have been the terminator scene

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >harassing her
    how exactly? What about that scene was "harassment"?
    Plus this scene here wasn't simply bullying, that bad guy outright threatened the fat guy.

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Haven’t read this comic but Matt kind of has to be a little psychotic to buy into him a lot of the time

    Remember, he isn’t really superpowered. He’s just a very fit man with martial arts and acrobatic skills.

    From what I recall in his university days he was still training hard and only doing small vigilante acts. He faced a turning point quite early on where he could have just as easily become the punisher except a ninja.

    Hence why he has so many run ins with Elektra and even took over the hand at one point.

    Without his Catholic faith Matt would be a straight up anti hero

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