Does it make any sense to buy a PHEV at all?

Does it make any sense to buy a PHEV at all?

It seems like hybrids are generally more fuel efficient and end up being cheaper to drive.

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    There is no reason not to buy a pure EV nowadays, they've gotten so good

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I want too see the long term effects of them being in cold, freezing, wet, environments, with salted roads.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Cold and freezing BEVs have reduced range, but overall are more reliable. Wet environments don't really matter since all cars handle rain and puddles just fine. Wading through deep water, BEVs do way better than gas cars due to not having an engine that can be flooded.

        Salted roads also shoudn't matter, since if you're driving in a salted environment you should be washing your car off after a drive.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >you should be washing your car off after a drive
          Think about the undercarriage. Car washes don't touch that. Plus you get into an accident that car is basically totaled if any part of the battery (which takes up most of the under part of the car) gets damaged. That's it, the insurance is going to dump the damn thing.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            All cars get totalled after an accident. If any airbags deploy they're totalled. So if the battery is somehow damaged, then the impact that would have caused such damage would be enough to total any other car.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            That's not true in the slightest.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            nta

            It unfortunately is. It's common practice now for insurance companies to total a vehicle simply because the airbags went off. I hear it's because it's extremely expensive to replace them, but don't quote me, anonymous, on that.

            Its not uncommon to get a stratch in ev undercarriage from not so serious contact with shit roads and the car is totalled from not blowing any airbags. Insurance company IF in Finland stopped issuing further insurances to some ev car makers until they got their shit together with pricing on scrape on underbody totalling the whole porsche or audi by manufacturers claim. It took insurance company to not issue anymore insurances for these shit tier electric vehicles to get the scam to end with scraping the bottom of the car on shit tier roads that europe consists of.p00

            >It took a scammer to stop scamming people to get another scammer to stop scamming people

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Its not uncommon to get a stratch in ev undercarriage from not so serious contact with shit roads and the car is totalled from not blowing any airbags. Insurance company IF in Finland stopped issuing further insurances to some ev car makers until they got their shit together with pricing on scrape on underbody totalling the whole porsche or audi by manufacturers claim. It took insurance company to not issue anymore insurances for these shit tier electric vehicles to get the scam to end with scraping the bottom of the car on shit tier roads that europe consists of.p00

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            That sounds like an extremely rare event that doesn't really impact the discussion.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Look up björn nyland on Youtube. He plays around with lots of EVs in norway

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >There is no reason not to buy a pure EV now-ACKKK
      The BEV experiment is over again, chud. Failed in the 1920s. Failed in the 2020s. Try having sex incel.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        BEV sales grew 35% last year...

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >1% *1.35=1.35%
          35%? Big if true!

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Hold on little man, let's stick to what you said before going off on another topic. You said, "The experiment is over". This implies there is some downturn. But there is still increasing sales.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Meanwhile in reality Tesla sells millions of cars and Toyota struggles to even make any PHEVs

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I will not drive the goypod

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Most people drive under 40 miles a day, so unless you have a long commute you would hardly use gas with a PHEV

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      true, my concerns are that the additional complexity of the car will lead to a lot of mechanical/electrical issues down the road, possibly expensive repair costs. no car will last forever but I've been hearing bad things about PHEVs for having a ton of issues in particular

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        It’s not much more complex than a regular hybrid, just a larger battery and more powerful motors. Depends on the manufacturer though. Toyota Prius and Rav Prime are gonna be the best and last at least 200k miles

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >complexity
        A hybrid is, ideally,
        >a low stress, small displacement, non turbo atkinson cycle 4 cylinder that will last for >250k+ miles with general standard maintenance
        >an electric motor(s) that are basically problem free
        >a CVT unit that only requires belt replacement every 150k miles
        >a small battery (regular hybrid) or larger (plug in) that today is a lithium design which will last 250-300k miles when properly kept at 20-80% charge states and never fast charged

        2nd Gen Prius' can achieve greater than 300k miles on OEM equipment with nothing but regular standard maint. and a battery swap at 140-180k miles depending on the environment and how the car was used (like fast 80MPH highways generally aren't good for a 2nd gen prius or anything equivalent).
        Hybrids are fine. They were well designed and problem solved almost 20 years ago now.
        Just do the regular fluid, filter changes, spark plugs at 120k+ miles, and a battery change at ~150k miles.

        PHEVs are considerably better than standard hybrids because, as long as your regular week's driving can stay mostly inside the batt range, your gas engine can easily reach more than "300k" miles since it will be, ideally, used sparingly but also enough to keep the seals and such lubricated and clean.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          A hybrid's eCVT is nothing like a CVT with a belt

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >ICE
    Vroom vroom noises can be fun, but most people don't care about that. Also your Honda with a catback or Hyundai with a popcorn tune isn't special and no one wants to listen to it
    >regular hybrid
    Makes sense for most people who don't have a place to charge, or for those edge cases where current EVs don't make sense
    >PHEV
    Would have been great 10 years ago, makes less sense now because a decent PHEV costs as much as a decent BEV
    >BEV
    Like them or hate them, they make a lot of sense for most Americans. Over 60% of people live in single family dwellings. Simple building code ammendments to mandate a 240v rough-in for homes and Nema 14-50 outlets in apartments with assigned parking will go a long way
    Even cities are starting to add curbside charging and fast charging hubs
    >Range extended BEV
    The dark horse no one talks about. Traction is done entirely through the motors powered by the HV system with significant battery only range, but there's an onboard range extender for long drives and towing
    The new RAMcharger is using this exact setup. 150 miles of EV range is more than enough for 99% of daily needs, and a Pentastar to charge the thing as is tows a Boomer's toys across the country twice a year

    >the grid can't handle it!
    That's just admitting that our grid is some non-changing entity and is going to fall behind literal 3rd world shit holes, instead of being run by businesses who would take any oppurtunity to sell people more power

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >they make a lot of sense for most Americans

      homie please, you must live in the city.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Whatever makes you feel better

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Nice suburb bro, what city is it attached to?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Nice suburb bro, what city is it attached to?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Most Americans live in cities and suburbs

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        BEVs make less sense in cities. They're better for suburbs and rural areas where they have a place to charge at home, and drive long distances so the gas savings are much higher.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >hat's just admitting that our grid is some non-changing entity and is going to fall behind literal 3rd world shit holes,

      We're broke dingus, stop pretending you live in a rich country its all just an illusion built on a mountain of unpaid debt. This country has $35 TRILLION in debt and that's increasing by about $3 TRILLION a year. We're in a recession and everyone is broke.

      The market needs to be cranking out cheap $15,000 hatchbacks and work trucks for the working class not shoving its head up its ass to crank out impractical EVs no one can afford because some dumbass ecofascist bureaucrats in the government think they're going to save the planet from too much CO2.

      The market has spoken, people don't want impractical, unreliable cars with dangerous batteries and shit range when they could have a gas engine. The only way you can get around it is by having Big Brother try to regulate the gas engine out of existence which is a vanity project that we simply can't afford in a recession.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        You can get a Model 3 for like the price of a Civic with some options, people spend more than twice as much on trucks regularly
        >this bogus chart again
        >"hurr durr market has spoken"
        Yeah that's why the best selling car in 2024 was the Model Y

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >You can get a Model 3 for like the price of a Civic with some options,

          Yeah, after $20,000 in government subsidies. That shit isn't sustainable.

          >Yeah that's why the best selling car in 2024 was the Model Y

          EV sales are collapsing everywhere, Tesla is the only company that's still successful every other company is losing their shirt.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Largest selling car is an EV
            >B-but t-that d-doesn't count b-because its tesla
            Mindbroken

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >EV sales are collapsing
            >2023 was the best year ever for EVs with a double digit percent increase in sales

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            > isnt sustainable
            federal ev subsidies will be a thing until 2032 tho

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Tesla is the only company that's still successful every other company is losing their shirt.
            Tesla is the only non-Chinese company really achieving economies of scale for EV production. They produce more than 10x Toyota's output of EVs.

            Many other brands also fell into the trap of trying to make SUVs and Trucks which need much larger batteries over 100kWh, which currently lowers their margins.
            Most of Tesla's cars sold have batteries under 80kWh.
            Which is only 2 or 3 times the total capacity of many PHEVs which often have 20 to 40kWh total even if only 15 to 30kWh is usable.

            Around 60kWh plus at least 175kW fast charging seems to be the sweet spot for a car you can drive every day, but still use to make trips.

          • 2 months ago
            p

            All that is true, but what you forgot to talk about is actually how awesome Teslas truly are.
            That is why they are the best selling car in the world now.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >many PHEVs which often have 20 to 40kWh total even if only 15 to 30kWh is usable.
            That's what fricked over the Honda e. They treated its battery like it was mounted in a PHEV, even though the e is full-electric. The pack itself has over 40 kWh gross capacity AFAIK, but it's gated, and only 35.5 kWh are usable.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            All BEVs have a reserve that you're not allowed to use

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, but it's not 20% of the gross cap.
            The Zoe 41 has cca 44 kWh gross, and the Zoe 52 has around 55. Tesla in particular have very low gross cap, I think it's 78 for the old 75, and 81 for the newer (but still out of sale) 78.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Does it make any sense to buy a PHEV at all?

    Depends on your daily commute. If you've got a daily commute that you can do within or mostly within the range of the battery then it can save you most of your fuel usage; but you aren't limited the way you would be with a full EV.

    If I was going for an EV I'd probably get the RAV4 Prime.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Does it make any sense to buy a PHEV at all?
    The way I see it, you either go full EV or stick to some mild hybrid type shit that doesn't require charging at most. Having to install a charger at your house and deal with charging and associated bullshit (need to keep cables in your car, less cargo space, more dry weight etc), while still having something that will regularly need gas just seems stupid.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >deal with charging and associated bullshit (need to keep cables in your car
      Who does this?
      >less cargo space
      And don't these cars often have more space because no engine?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Who does this?
        People who want to charge their PHEVs?
        >And don't these cars often have more space because no engine?
        We're talking about hybrids, doofus. They have both an ICE and an electric motor and batteries (which usually take up potential trunk space).

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >People who want to charge their PHEVs?
          Why do you need to carry cables with you to charge a PHEV?
          >We're talking about hybrids
          Fair enough I was thinking of EV frunks, but most PHEVs I've seen actually have smaller gas tanks to make more room for the battery. No one mentions this but it makes them worse road trip vehicles

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    What the frick is the point of having to keep a battery charged up AND a gas tank fueled up with fresh gas? If you're a city cuck and can get by with their fricking pathetic all EV range why the frick are you dragging along a fuel tank and a gas drivetrain?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      If you can only own a single vehicle (ex. due to garage constraints), you'd want something that can go the extra distance. The most efficient compromise would be a vehicle with a roughly 20 kWh (usable) battery, for all your daily driving needs (regardless of weather), and some sort of compact range extender with a ~4-gallon tank, for those longer trips.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        99% of people are going to be just fine with a 300 mile range EV

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >300 mile range EV
          Doesn't exist. Tesla fake their numbers (especially highway range), and no other company offers a vehicle that can reach that range at regular highway speeds (80 mph).
          In order to reliably get a minimum of 300 miles of range, regardless of weather, regardless of road type ('burbs/highway), you'd need a vehicle with a high-efficiency axial flux motor, *and* 48/60-volt auxiliary electrics (HVAC/infotainment/lighting), *and* a minimum of 100 kWh usable capacity. Some of that stuff is not here yet.

          • 2 months ago
            p

            This is just FUD spread by poorgays and useful idiots.
            The firm I work for runs a fleet of Teslas and our sales team drive all over the country in them.
            Most get about 400 miles on a full charge and our fleet management system confirms this.
            In the real world Teslas have pretty damn good range, as well as performance and that improves with updates and as new models arrive.
            The team love them, and they could choose an ice if they wanted, but literally nobody wants one when they have the choice.
            What it looks like is the only people who are upset about EVs are the ones who are turbed about not being able to afford one

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Why would you want to compromise at all at that point (20 miles, lmao)? Just a get a diesel or something.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          mb, I'm blind and didn't see it was 20kWh, not 20 miles
          My point still stands though - better to either go all in on electric or stick to an efficient ICE vehicle.

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I only drive 2 or 3 days a week, and less than 3k miles per year. The HV battery in an EV or hybrid might not last 15 years, so my savings in fuel wouldn't cancel the additional cost of an EV. I have a lower carbon impact by keeping an older civic/corolla running than buying a new EV or hybrid.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >car enthusiast forum
      >"I don't like to drive and barely do it actually, now here's my opinion"
      Why are you even here besides shilling then?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Object enthusiast board
        >Noooo you have to enjoy the object the way i like to enjoy it
        Also
        >Forum

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Almost like he isn't an enthusiast. Most enthusiasts left this board after the 2016 influx

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    10k miles a year at 20mpg buying premium $4/gal comes out to $2000 a year
    nucar ownership is way more than $2000 a year. as you increase mpg the gains become smaller and smaller. 20mpg to 30mpg saves you $666 a year. 30mpg to 40 saves you $333. 40mpg to 50 saves you $200. 1/3 of one payment on a CHEAP nucar. anyone prioritizing mpg that much is pants on head moronic
    no part of nucars ever made sense or was intended to be good for you

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Hold on little man, let's stick to what you said before going off on another topic. You said, "The experiment is over". This implies there is some downturn. But there is still increasing sales.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Is that you? Because the chat bubble is opposite of my quote.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Mobile poster
        Kek. No, that's not me. I don't and will never own a T*sla.

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    For me it would be a 2nd gen prius with external charge mod.
    Battery packs are cheap and DIY replaceable. Its toyota so very reliable. 2nd gen is cute and funny.

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    If you don't count electricity as a cost (1st world) then phev makes sense in small trips as you can make use of that larger battery and wall charging. If you are third worlder then regular hybrid is yours.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >If you don't count electricity as a cost (1st world)

      watch this video

      Electric charging stations are expensive, and if you exclusively charge at public charging stations (for example, if you live in an apartment and cannot charge at home) then EVs can be MORE expensive to drive than hybrid cars

      that video is actually a great watch, really breaks down what the costs would be for different types of drives (highway long distance, short trips in city, etc)

      they pretty much come to the conclusion that the PHEV is the worst option of the three (hybrid, PHEV, EV)

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Just charge for free at the office, or charge for pennies at home.
        If you can't afford a house, you should probably take care of that before trying to have a personal car.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >If you can't afford a house, you should probably take care of that before trying to have a personal car.
          ironic to say when house prices across the anglosphere are absolutely balooning right now

          no young person in USA, Canada, UK, or Aus can afford a house unless their parents are paying for it.

          and you are missing my main point, that public charging stations are RIPPING PEOPLE OFF and are going to end up making electric cars a worse deal than ICE cars even when the core tech is cheaper and more reliable

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >no young person in USA, Canada, UK, or Aus can afford a house unless their parents are paying for it.
            I did, and i am now on my second, bigger house.
            If you make sensible financial decisions its not hard.
            If you can't afford to own a house, then you just can't afford a car. Its that simple.
            Ride the bus if you have to, until you have enough capital to spin up some real money.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            not terrible advice honestly

            can I ask where you bought a house and how much you put down? I'm 27 years old and want to buy soon but can't afford california

            The only markets I could actually afford would be quite rural. like outer suburbs of salt lake city possibly. Wyoming has the lowest property taxes in the country, so I've been mildly considering that, but the downside is it's the middle of fricking nowhere and has insane weather. there are no good options in the 300k price range

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe phev would be good if they put an efficient electricity generating engine like a turbine in instead of just a normal piston engine.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Piston engines are more efficient than turbines (combined cycle plants run a seperate steam engine from the heat of the turbine's exhaust).

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I don't think they make sense in small cars that are already quite efficient to begin with. I do think there's a place for them in trucks and SUVs though, the ability to negate the fuel costs of everyday commuting and errands while still having the long-distance advantages of a combustion engine makes a lot of sense to me. A range extender BEV may make more sense than a dual-drive PHEV though.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Trucks and SUVs which people think they'll drive on long trips, or tow with constantly, but actually sit in the drive way, or only make the trip to the store and back are an excellent use case for PHEV powertrains.

      But I think small cars are one of the places where they make the most sense currently. Small cars are generally driven short distances in town, which means they usually only need a small battery pack, but people who own small cars as something other than a second car occasionally drive them longer distances and it is still difficult to get a pack larger than about 40kWh into a very small car.

      The 60kWh pack in the Chevy Bolt is still one of the largest packs you can find in a small car, and it is rather ruined for trips by its lack of modern fast charger support peaking at 50kW.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        thoughts on the Kia Niro PHEV anon?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Not my cup of tea, but I'm sure its a fine option.
          Couldn't find anything on the powertrain. Is it parallel hybrid (Toyota PHEV style), series hybrid (BMW i3 style), or switchable (Volt style).

          I tend to think Volt style or i3 style are better than the way Toyota does things. I think I heard the new Prius Prime is a more Volt-style powertrain than the older Prius PHEV that couldn't de-couple the engine and fully.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Small cars make sense from a technical perspective, but I think the economics are a lot harder to justify, a truck just burns so much more gas that it can amortize the extra cost of a PHEV system a lot faster than a small efficient car. Big body on frame vehicles also have a lot more packaging space and are more capable of taking the extra weight, and as a side note electric regen could be a really useful thing when hauling or towing.

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