How come the only way americans can build reliable engines is by making them inefficient, underpowered, gas guzzling hogs that run unstressed and thus...

How come the only way americans can build reliable engines is by making them inefficient, underpowered, gas guzzling hogs that run unstressed and thus last forever?

Meanwhile, japs build efficient engines that run at full power AND still last forever

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >inefficient, underpowered

    The last generation of Buick 3800 gets nearly 30 MPG and 200 horsepower in a full size sedan and they stopped making them in 2008. I wouldn't call that inefficient.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >3.8 liter v6
      >only 200hp
      Have you even driven a Buick with that engine? The last gen lasabre feels like it’s struggling under its own weight

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Why do you care about the displacement? If the lazy 3.8L V6 is giving you more horsepower and the same gas mileage as a high strung turbo 4 cylinder that's harder to work on and half as durable then why do you care?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Why do you care about the displacement
          Because a good jap mz would make the same hp and not feel like a chore to get it up to speed. They are both reliable v6s and easy to work on but push comes to shove a toyota motor will outlast a gm. Also stop bringing up poorgay 4bangers we're not in highschool anymore

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The 200hp 1MZ was rated at 19/25mpg city/highway and made less torque than a 3800 Series II. They also had oil gelling issues and knock control issues when they switched to VVTi. Take of your weeb tinted glasses Anon.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Because a good jap mz would make the same hp and not feel like a chore to get it up to speed.

            thats just flat out wrong. only a handful of 6cyls from japan were even available outside of anything but the executive or top of the line sport options so they were nowhere near as prevalent, so maybe the impression is out there that they must be good because some 4cyls were good.

            but thats just not the case. and the issue with the Buicks is that they were fricking heavy.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Ya but the regal 3800 was a demon

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Why do you care about the displacement
        Because a good jap mz would make the same hp and not feel like a chore to get it up to speed. They are both reliable v6s and easy to work on but push comes to shove a toyota motor will outlast a gm. Also stop bringing up poorgay 4bangers we're not in highschool anymore

        The sluggish acceleration on the 3800 is mostly due to the tall gearing.

        The 200hp 1MZ was rated at 19/25mpg city/highway and made less torque than a 3800 Series II. They also had oil gelling issues and knock control issues when they switched to VVTi. Take of your weeb tinted glasses Anon.

        Ive worked on more MZ toyotas than i can count. Never seen an issue, but maybe there's some survivor ship bias there since the engine is 3 decades old

        >Because a good jap mz would make the same hp and not feel like a chore to get it up to speed.

        thats just flat out wrong. only a handful of 6cyls from japan were even available outside of anything but the executive or top of the line sport options so they were nowhere near as prevalent, so maybe the impression is out there that they must be good because some 4cyls were good.

        but thats just not the case. and the issue with the Buicks is that they were fricking heavy.

        Lesabres arent very heavy. ~3500lbs for a full size sedan.

        GM left a ton of untapped power in the 3800 there were a few guys trying to see how far they could get with N/A mods pushing over 300WHP at which point the transmissions were the limiting factor. Remember they only killed the engine because the numbers looked weak on paper but they were literally bullet proof and always outlasted the car unless terribly abused. L32 revisions fixed the greatest weakpoint with the aluminum intake manifold and all revisons got amazing gas mileage.

        GM wouldnt be able to really touch that power though. Theyd need to redesign the block for atleast VVT which is already at a disadvantage being a single cam. Then also consider the physical size. Its a 90° big displacement transverse v6. They arent easy to fit in anything other than full size sedans with massive hoods which were going out of fashion around the time when they axed the 3800

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Lesabres arent very heavy.

          park avenues are.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    That's just not true. Japanese engines used to be underpowered as well. Look at the Japanese V8s. Time will tell if today's high power engines still last.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      glad im not the only one. there's always people that will b***h about understressed engines and others that'll b***h about strung out engines. everything is a compromise and you just have to decide what you want feels right for you

    • 1 month ago
      s10fag

      vg30 was just awful and then they put it in mini vans, and then ford decided they needed those minivans right beside their superior in house designs with their names on it

      https://i.imgur.com/xeH2VIn.jpg

      How come the only way americans can build reliable engines is by making them inefficient, underpowered, gas guzzling hogs that run unstressed and thus last forever?

      Meanwhile, japs build efficient engines that run at full power AND still last forever

      the buick v6 is a relic of the 50's like the SBC, dont pretend it was representative of anything modern like the 4v mod, northstar, LS, or 60 degree that came out of the US in the 90s

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Japanese engines are not assembled by Black folks

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Imagine if Detroit got all the welfare Black folk got, they would actually build cars or trucks people would buy. America can’t be great again until American cars are great again.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Are trumpBlack folk still on about "making America great!" That train is long passed, shut the frick up already.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          which 3rd world shithole are you loyal to?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            shut up monkey. you don't have the guts to make anything great. all the real Americans are either dead, or too old to make a difference. go hide some more guns from the government and pretend you have the balls to use them one day.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            you spend too much time on the internet. I'd probably do the same if I were in a 3rd world shithole.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Imagine if Detroit got all the welfare Black folk got
        Detroit is 78% black though.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          That's the idea

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    how come japanese engines are the slowest to update and as inefficient as american ones
    how come european engines are so complex memes are made of them
    how come chinese engines don't work
    how come OP is a homosexual

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      so insecure

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >admitting to homosexualry of the highest level
        that's gayer then your ev

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          so insecure she just starts making up things

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Its not "european" engines, its GERMAN engines
      and they are complex so they work as efficient as possible you stupid Amerigga

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >they are complex so they work as efficient as possible you stupid Amerigga

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Meanwhile, japs build efficient engines that run at full power AND still last forever

    Aren't all modern Japanese engines just low-comp 4-cylinders that use an electric motor to solve the torque and fuel drinking problem

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Aren't all modern Japanese engines just low-comp 4-cylinders.
      Japanese started making more high compression engines after 2013 first was Mazda, second was Toyota/Lexus, third was Honda. Forth was Suzuki(mainly for fuel efficiency rather than performance). Subaru was very late after 2019. Mitsubishi never did any improvements to their internal combustion engines technology.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        High compression as in over 10.5:1 is mostly possible because of direct injection. Every brand across the world bumped their compression. Its why NA cars across the board got a small bump in power when direct injection came out

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I get better gas mileage in my Cobra than I did my old Si-R swapped CRX while having almost double the power. What kind of crack are you smoking OP?

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    This is like the third or fourth time I've seen someone try to start a thread shitting on the 3800. Did the engine diddle you in the middle of the night as a kid or something?

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Black folk and hispanics build them vs Japanese samurais.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Japanese engines are only reliable if they never crack 40mph. An American engine will do a million miles, pulling a 4 ton horse trailer at 70mph the entire time.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      On 10 timing chain replacements and cam phasers of its a ferd

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    May I beg your pardon?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Best engine

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    "unstressed" is a moronic busrider meme
    simple as

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Yeah because Toyota is known for making fast cars right
    >Yurop
    >thinking about America
    many such cases

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Toyota engines are anemic and get horrible mpg, not sure where you are getting "efficient" and "full power" from unless you're baiting. Which you probably are.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      My Tercel may make less than 100hp, but at least it gets good fuel economy. On the other hand my old B-series Hondas(B16, poor mans type R and LS/VTEC) got about half that mileage.

      "unstressed" is a moronic busrider meme
      simple as

      >implying high hp/l NA engines aren't worse on fuel than "understressed" engines
      moron/10 post.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Its quite simple: power is naturally developed from an engine that flows well and has an efficient design in terms of bore, stroke, cam, fuel delivery and more. No modern street engines are pushing wildly in the direction of high hp n/a power to create the losses in economy and durability that you describe. In reality the majority engines cited as "understressed" simple use older, less efficient technology/design. Look at how powerful and economic many of these famous engines can be when they have more efficient components installed (especially the older american small blocks). Ditch the pisspoor flowing, heatsoaking iron manifolds and heads, put a roller cam in and an overdrive trans and you can easily see power and mpg gains. Many of the examples usually cited as "overstressed engines" are simply shit designs from the start (frick ecoboosts and hyundai).

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >No modern street engines are pushing wildly in the direction of high hp n/a power to create the losses in economy
          Then why is the 2nd gen Toyobaru only rated at 20/27mpg city/highway while my little 5EFE averages 40+ or even my old V8 with no VCT or other modern tech averages 25mpg?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Boxer engines are an inefficient antiquated design, try again

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Cope/10

            Gearing.

            My Tercel is a 4spd and only geared to 126mph, clearly that's not the case.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            did tercels have a 3.5 final drive ratio? i thought it was 3.73. but i dunno what model yours is. iirc the 86 has 4.10 gearing

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            5spds had a 3.7 diff, mine is only a 4spd. The Toyobaru also has a much taller tire which affects gearing as well though.

            Hey, I've driven the piss out of a 94 4-spd Tercel. I don't have much good to say about it. Anyway, in that case it's:
            >Curb weight --- 1,950 lbs.

            Mine is a '96 so it has dual airbags and has the optional power steering and AC. IIRC it was just over 2k on a scale.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >just over 2k on a scale.
            The combo of tall gears and light weight gives your Tercel good mileage.
            90mph at 5800rpm in 3rd tells me the gears are very tall. A miata in 5th gear is at over 4k at 90mph.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >A miata in 5th gear is at over 4k at 90mph.
            Again, I only have 4 gears so they're just wider spaced. Overall gearing is similar.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Whoops.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            https://i.imgur.com/dDvPZlF.png

            Whoops.

            Well I can't explain that.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It's pretty easy to see why both get worse mpg. If you're trying to compare the Miata, even though they have similar weight and gearing in 4th vs 5th gear the Tercel is a coupe so it's more aerodynamic and it has less specific output.
            If you're trying to compare the Toyobaru, it chases specific output and even though it has clear advantages in tech(DI, VCT, far more advanced ignition/ecu) and gearing it doesn't even come close in fuel economy. Like I was saying, "understressed" engines use less fuel. People misunderstand the term and think hp/l is actually good outside of class based racing or if you're unfortunate enough to live somewhere that taxes on displacement.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Hey, I've driven the piss out of a 94 4-spd Tercel. I don't have much good to say about it. Anyway, in that case it's:
            >Curb weight --- 1,950 lbs.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Gearing.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            https://i.imgur.com/XlmyNSr.png

            Cope/10
            [...]
            My Tercel is a 4spd and only geared to 126mph, clearly that's not the case.

            did tercels have a 3.5 final drive ratio? i thought it was 3.73. but i dunno what model yours is. iirc the 86 has 4.10 gearing

            >just over 2k on a scale.
            The combo of tall gears and light weight gives your Tercel good mileage.
            90mph at 5800rpm in 3rd tells me the gears are very tall. A miata in 5th gear is at over 4k at 90mph.

            5spds had a 3.7 diff, mine is only a 4spd. The Toyobaru also has a much taller tire which affects gearing as well though.
            [...]
            Mine is a '96 so it has dual airbags and has the optional power steering and AC. IIRC it was just over 2k on a scale.

            Its quite simple: power is naturally developed from an engine that flows well and has an efficient design in terms of bore, stroke, cam, fuel delivery and more. No modern street engines are pushing wildly in the direction of high hp n/a power to create the losses in economy and durability that you describe. In reality the majority engines cited as "understressed" simple use older, less efficient technology/design. Look at how powerful and economic many of these famous engines can be when they have more efficient components installed (especially the older american small blocks). Ditch the pisspoor flowing, heatsoaking iron manifolds and heads, put a roller cam in and an overdrive trans and you can easily see power and mpg gains. Many of the examples usually cited as "overstressed engines" are simply shit designs from the start (frick ecoboosts and hyundai).

            Arent you guys missing the fuel mapping? I dont have access to the stock maps, but youd think a "sporty car" would come with a richer mixture overall and worry less about leaning things out when cruising.
            Then theres the volumetric efficiency at given %s of throttle. An eco car would have intake/exhaust tuned for the best VE at cruise whereas a sporty car would tune for better VE at open throttle in exchange for VE at cruise.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            An engine only really runs richer in port fuel injected systems for the brief moment after significantly increasing throttle or if the o2 sensors are bad. Like Gale Banks said about diesels "black smoke is wasted power", same goes for gas in essence. Rich exhaust is wasted power, unless youre doing old school f1 fuel injected turbo nonsense but thats different.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Nice larp moron

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Prove me wrong.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Unfortunately quite true in many cases. I had a 4cyl 2017 tacoma quad cab for a while, which got 17mpg avg and was the most gutless hunk of shit. I can't believe they are so popular because of that experience. They shouldn't even offer that truck with the shitpile turd fricking 4cyl unless it's a regular cab short bed. The transmission hunted like elmer fudd. Downshifted if the headwind picked up. I hated that fricking thing. It's funny too because I had a 2000 4Runner before that and I found it a good truck.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    "What is Materials Science" for 500.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Meanwhile, japs build efficient engines that run at full power AND still last forever

    do you have toyota/honda goggles on?

    never seen an isuzu, suzuki, most nissan, most mitsubishis, most mazdas, and half subarus get confused with something that lasts forever.

    shit thread.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Subaru, Mazda, and Suzuki are arguably more-reliable on average than Toyota / Honda. You're just going off of memes. I sold my last mazda at 280k miles on the original engine and 2nd clutch.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        just because the op seemed to be.

        Honestly, any car made with fuel injection and obd2 will basically run forever if maintained properly. Seen early gen duratecs, and old 60degree chevys go 300,000 miles just doing what you should. Its only the newest direct injection stuff and stuf that started running 20w that seem really fragile

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Come again?

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    GM left a ton of untapped power in the 3800 there were a few guys trying to see how far they could get with N/A mods pushing over 300WHP at which point the transmissions were the limiting factor. Remember they only killed the engine because the numbers looked weak on paper but they were literally bullet proof and always outlasted the car unless terribly abused. L32 revisions fixed the greatest weakpoint with the aluminum intake manifold and all revisons got amazing gas mileage.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Yo what? 1UZ-FE? N/A 2JZ? 22RE? Nissan VG? All very understressed, low power motors with poor fuel economy.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >pushrod
    >50HP/L
    >25-30mpg
    >cheap as all frick to make, replace, and fix

    Yeah, but the problem is the kind of Americans who can make stuff like that are all dead now.

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