How fricked would a non-flex fuel car be if you put E85 into it?

How fricked would a non-flex fuel car be if you put E85 into it?

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Works fine if you have a way to put approximately a third more fuel into it
    People have been known to run E85 on a stock computer by simply running approximately sized larger injectors

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Works fine in my machine!

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    it depends on how much you put into the tank.

    if the concentration of ethanol is too high, its gona run like shit.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Modern fuel injection systems can adjust to take high proof grain alcohol (Think 190~) and run fine.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If you have shitty rubber fuel hoses then the ethanol could dry them out which would lead to a leak which in the worst case scenario would lead to a fire

    OP be honest, did you accidentally put E85 into your car?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >rubber hoses
      non issue on anything new enough to have OBD

      Works fine if you have a way to put approximately a third more fuel into it
      People have been known to run E85 on a stock computer by simply running approximately sized larger injectors

      Modern fuel injection systems can adjust to take high proof grain alcohol (Think 190~) and run fine.

      depends on the ECU and how much fueling headroom it has to adjust to reach lambda targets when running closed loop. on my car (MQB platform) E30 is the hard limit on stock hardware before it starts to lean out at WOT. upgraded HPFP with larger bore piston is literally all you need to run up to full alcohol.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >non issue on anything new enough to have OBD
        Well my car doesn’t have that

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          then all you have to do is replace your crusty lines with something from this millenium then rejet that shit and enjoy the gains

          Can't be good on it. My truck says it can't deal with anything more than 15%. Ethanol is a terrible fuel that clogs up all sorts of things. They have pure gas at a local air strip that I use for my lawn equipment, never have to deal with clogged carbs or any other bullshit.

          boomer fuddlore

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            if you need to replace your fuel lines etc, the cars ecm will not have enough adaptablility to run e85 correctly, there is roughly a 30% difference, most fuel systems not designed to run e85, cannot handle that much compensation and will start having issues.

            your full of misinformation.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            "your" full of shit, because if your car is old enough to have fuel lines that are not ethanol tolerant it probably has a carb or rarely some flavor of jetronic. carbed engines are easy as frick to convert to alcohol, you don't even need to mess with the dizzy unless you want to get more power out of it.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            still full of misinformation bro, just because its efi does not mean it can keep up with the increased demand and the hoses are not made to deal with ethanol.

            learn some more.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            try to follow along dawg I know you're esl but I literally posted earlier

            >rubber hoses
            non issue on anything new enough to have OBD

            [...]
            [...]
            depends on the ECU and how much fueling headroom it has to adjust to reach lambda targets when running closed loop. on my car (MQB platform) E30 is the hard limit on stock hardware before it starts to lean out at WOT. upgraded HPFP with larger bore piston is literally all you need to run up to full alcohol.

            where you replied to me that the ECU has limited fueling headroom to adjust lambda after which it leans out. this is basic shit, obviously if you want to run full alcohol on stock hardware on a non flex car you need to increase fuel delivery to maintain proper AFR. and obviously it depends on the ECU architecture. the thing about hoses is a red herring, because anything made after 1980 isn't going to shrivel up because it touches alcohol. and if you have a car that old you've probably already replaced the crusty rubber lines at some point. anyway muscle car guys have been running ethanol in their ford 429s and big block chevys forever.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            lol, you keep saying its safe and no mods needed, but you just need to mod x y and z.

            stop giving wrenchlets false info.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            the words used in my posts are
            >replace
            >rejet
            >convert

            not sure how you got "no mods needed" from that. but it's easy as frick to do and low risk in any case if you're not inept

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            so then your advice in the op's case is wrong, go cry about it.

            take the L and move on.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            see

            The topic is putting E85 into cars which weren't designed to run E85, I am contributing by explaining how people successfully do it.

            >you're going to be adjusting injector pulsewidth and timing in the ECU any time you change flow rates.
            No that's the fricking point you brainlet, HOW ARE YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING THIS?

            >E85 requires approx 1/3rd more fuel flow to achieve stoich than regular petrol
            >replace injectors with units approximately 1/3rd larger
            >achieve (approximately) stoich AFR on the stock ECU with the stock tune and stock injector duration
            It really is not a difficult concept anon.

            I understand 3*1/3 = 3 anon. be that as it may, different injectors don't only have different flow specs. they have different dead times as well which need to be compensated for by the ECU. that's not to mention that if the ECU is running open loop the calibration will be completely off. I'm sure it will work short term but adjusting the tune is not rocket science, it's always been drilled in my head that swapping injectors always means adjusting the tune and there's a reason. E85 is a good fuel, I just want to make sure people can run it reliably without issues which they naively blame on converting to E85 down the road.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No you literally just put bigger injectors in your car and you get more fuel, people do it all the time with stock ECU turbo builds. You can also do it with fuel pressure but going 30% extra fuel pressure with E85 is probably going to require more fuel pump.

            I put a turbo MAP sensor on my car so the ECU thinks it's getting less air, then I put bigger injectors on it so the fueling balances out again. Sure the AFRs aren't perfect everywhere and there is definitely some background trimming going on, but it definitely works.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            *1/3*3 = 1 frick lol

            No you literally just put bigger injectors in your car and you get more fuel, people do it all the time with stock ECU turbo builds. You can also do it with fuel pressure but going 30% extra fuel pressure with E85 is probably going to require more fuel pump.

            I put a turbo MAP sensor on my car so the ECU thinks it's getting less air, then I put bigger injectors on it so the fueling balances out again. Sure the AFRs aren't perfect everywhere and there is definitely some background trimming going on, but it definitely works.

            I don't doubt that it works, I guess as long as you go bigger than you need to you'll always be on the rich side if anything goes wrong. modifying engine hardware on a stock tune just makes me nervous but that's what I get for modifying a euro car (mechanical anxiety)

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No, you're right and the other anon is 100% wrong.
            "just swap injectors" is moronic as the ECU is still using numbers for the smaller injectors.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The point of the larger injectors is it compensates for the stock ECU

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          eh the point is it depends on the car, because on some there are easier ways. on DI cars replacing injectors is expensive and a pain in the ass, plus you're going to be adjusting injector pulsewidth and timing in the ECU any time you change flow rates.

          Why would you even frick with your engine like this? Lmao like how fricking stupid are you to create a multi-thousand dollar issue over $20 of gas

          to quote mike kojima, it's like crack for turbo engines

          >verification not required

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            To quote mike kojima E85 sucks sometimes

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            sure if you're dumb enough to run E85 for months while only driving short 1 mile trips and then your tuner dad has to rebuild your whole EJ25 for free using premium aftermarket parts lol. like all performance mods it's a tradeoff and you have to know what you're getting into, but the benefits are real

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >It's ok sweetie we'll just do frequent oil chan-ACK!

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Basically just a water build issue caused constant short distance driving and shutting of engine multiple times, never allowing engine to warm up to its normal operation temperature. This damages engines regardless to what fuel engine runs. Fuel isnt only source on how water gets into engine, small amounts water also goes into engine through the air intake as water fumes from high humidity air and also from driving in rainy days. Also condensation through engine materials by cold+high humidity weathers. The proper way to prevent water build up into engine oil is to drive the engine to its normal operation temperature so the water can properly evaporate away from engine. If short distance trips cant be avoided then engine should be preheated for 1-4 hours before drive with examples block heater, hose heater, oil pan heater depending on whats available.

            "Mike Kojima" actually admitted in his videos comments, that short distance trips like 2 miles is bad for engine even with gasoline that doesnt contain ethanol.

          • 2 weeks ago
            [PLEBSPOTTERS] BigC

            water is a byproduct of combustion, there's no water in the fuel that gets into the engine, the fuel generates water through a chemical reaction when the fuel burns with air
            that's why you see condensation coming out of exhaust on cold days, it's water vapor generated by the combustion of fuel
            https://www.quora.com/How-much-water-does-my-car-produce-after-burning-one-gallon-of-gas

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            1. ethanol is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture from humid air.
            2. ethanol produces more H2O in the exhaust as a product of the combustion reaction for the same output power.

            normally not enough to be a problem, but over time both of these moisture sources will make their way into the crankcase through blowby and fuel dilution, which can be a problem if you never get your car up to temp. boiling point of water is 212F so it's really not that hard if you're going for a spirited drive especially with something forced inducted.

            Basically just a water build issue caused constant short distance driving and shutting of engine multiple times, never allowing engine to warm up to its normal operation temperature. This damages engines regardless to what fuel engine runs. Fuel isnt only source on how water gets into engine, small amounts water also goes into engine through the air intake as water fumes from high humidity air and also from driving in rainy days. Also condensation through engine materials by cold+high humidity weathers. The proper way to prevent water build up into engine oil is to drive the engine to its normal operation temperature so the water can properly evaporate away from engine. If short distance trips cant be avoided then engine should be preheated for 1-4 hours before drive with examples block heater, hose heater, oil pan heater depending on whats available.

            "Mike Kojima" actually admitted in his videos comments, that short distance trips like 2 miles is bad for engine even with gasoline that doesnt contain ethanol.

            might have to look into heaters m80, I've been diluting my ethanol mix because I drive much less than before

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >you're going to be adjusting injector pulsewidth and timing in the ECU any time you change flow rates.
            No that's the fricking point you brainlet, HOW ARE YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING THIS?

            >E85 requires approx 1/3rd more fuel flow to achieve stoich than regular petrol
            >replace injectors with units approximately 1/3rd larger
            >achieve (approximately) stoich AFR on the stock ECU with the stock tune and stock injector duration
            It really is not a difficult concept anon.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            this is alot of work to do just cause op accidentally put in e85.

            its almost as if his car was not made to use e85 and you shouldnt run e85 if your car is made to handle it.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The topic is putting E85 into cars which weren't designed to run E85, I am contributing by explaining how people successfully do it.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >non issue on anything new enough to have OBD
        A lie.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why would e10 be fine but e85 suddenly break hoses???

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Density

  5. 2 weeks ago
    [PLEBSPOTTERS] BigC

    I used to run my 91 ford festiva off e85 it made no difference at all in how it ran

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Best case, everything is fine, but you should siphon the tank asap.
    Worst case, injectors could potentially get clogged.
    Siphon the tank, fill with proper octane, some seafoam might not be a bad idea either.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Can't be good on it. My truck says it can't deal with anything more than 15%. Ethanol is a terrible fuel that clogs up all sorts of things. They have pure gas at a local air strip that I use for my lawn equipment, never have to deal with clogged carbs or any other bullshit.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nothing but it would not run optimal.

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It would run lean as frick.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    runs gr8

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why would you even frick with your engine like this? Lmao like how fricking stupid are you to create a multi-thousand dollar issue over $20 of gas

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ethanol has water in it. Doesn't last as long as gasoline in the tank before breaking down.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It'll run leaner. I had to use up E85 I didn't use from a track day and I would dilute it 1:5-6 with pump gas in my daily. Took a few tanks to get rid of 15 gallons of E85

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