Is Cadillac the new Pontiac?

Starting to wonder why gm killed pontiac in the first place, only to reskin cadillac as them in the current day. Cadillac's entire identity is basically what pontiac was before the recession killed them. In fact I'm pretty sure the alfa platform that debuted with cadillac was derived from the zeta platform used with the g8 and chevy ss. Feels kinda pointless to kill off pontiac and then reinvent cadillac's image while still trying to preserve the luxury aspect in their models at the same time

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I forgot the source but during the bankruptcy bullshit the auditors wanted to kill everything but Cadillac/ Chevy. GM *beggged* for Pontiac but it just didn't make any fricking money. Same logic with GMC. Auditors were like why the frick do you need this? but they saw how high the margins were on GMCs so thats why its still around. Don't know why Buick exists but I imagine it was the same - it makes money.

    as for pic rel, cadillac is the halo brand so it needs to have some sort of hypercar/ hyper luxury thing to it. We'll get the Celestiq finally now that its in production, and depending on how that goes (again, margins/ profitably) there might be enough money to make a road car based off of pic rel

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Iirc Pontiac and Olds got the cut because they were essentially copies of other GM cars, Sunfire/cavalier, firebird/Camaro, etc. The reason Buick is still around was China had a major hardon for them at the time (and still do) and was their up and coming cash cow.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Olds got the cut in the early 2000s, before the later big GM bankruptcy everyone knows that killed Pontiac, Hummer, Saab, etc. Olds was in a big slump because they were copies like you said, plus years of being stuck in a corporate chokehold and competing with multiple other GM makes for the same market segment. and by the time they were allowed to actually go wild again and make unique stuff (the Aurora, land-speed cars, fixing the Northstar, etc), the writing was already on the wall and the bean counters had made up their mind to give them the axe.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Pontiac was more profitable than Buick was in the US in 2008, but wasn't anywhere close to the explosive popularity of Buick in China so Buick stayed.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Pontiac sold better in the US, Buick sold better internationally (China, mostly)
        GM reasoned that
        1. Market growth in China would far exceed the US
        2. US government wouldn't look too kindly on them keeping the sports car name

        Honestly, Pontiac's days were numbered regardless, because there just wasn't any room for them in the marketplace anymore. GM could justify having 5+ different badges in their stable back when something like 50% of all new cars sold in the US were built by GM. But by the 90s when they had to compete with Japanese and European imports alongside Ford and Chrysler, it no longer made sense to have a half-dozen names cannibalising sales off each other. Even Buick probably isn't long for this world. GMC only still exists because the profit margins on luxury pickups are so massive that even if they only sold like a thousand trucks a year they'd still make money.

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    GM is just dumping money into Cadillac's brand prestige. the focus on driving dynamics and catering to enthusiast with Manual less automated super saloons, pushing the brand in motorsports, and stepping into the hyper luxury market against rolls royce and bentley with 250k hand built luxury cars.

    Another brand that is doing this is acura. in a span of just 15 years Honda has
    >made their own signature marketable AWD system that undercuts its competitors with better features
    >made a DCT exclusively for the brand
    >made a super car showcasing their technology
    >entered the brand into motorsports like Cadillac
    >has a performance sedan lineup with the Type S branding

    All this, when Acura used to be lazy rebadged FWD hondas. Cadillac went from FWD numb feeling boats to taking on the best driving dynamics from germany, whilst catering more to hardcore enthusiast.

    Acura and Cadillac has probably seen the biggest transformations and turn around of any brand.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Acura and Cadillac has probably seen the biggest transformations and turn around of any brand.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        name a bigger and more dramatic transformation.
        >making FWD barges/shitboxes
        to
        >Having advanced AWD systems that undercut the competition and manual super saloons that still beat them
        >wining some of the most prestigious races

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    A road version of that would be sweet but with the amount of c8s I see I assume they print money and GM would just focus on that platform

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Those prototypes are smaller than a 1st gen Miata

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yup

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Cadillac's entire identity is basically what pontiac was before the recession killed them.

    Bullshit. Pontiac hasn't had an identity since the at least the Fiero. After that, they were just badge-engineered Chevys and captured imports. Cadillac had already taken a turn for sport-luxury segment with the Sigma platform which predates that Zeta. The Zeta wasn't even an American platform.

    The reason why Pontiac and Saturn were killed off were because they weren't doing anything that couldn't be done with the other brands. There was nothing special about them for decades before they were shuttered. More importantly, they weren't making any money which was why GMC got to stick around.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      saturn could've made a name for itself had they been left to their own devices, and not forced to rebadge opels.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >saturn could've made a name for itself had they been left to their own devices
        if there's one thing GM fricking hates, it's when a brand is left to their own devices
        that's how you get pontiac trying for years to greenlight their own corvette-killer, running the GTO into production before anyone could stop it, and claiming the fiero was a "mid engined economy car" and holding off on the V6 and suspension updates just long enough for the suits to believe it while they pump money into making the car better every year while on paper it doesn't turn enough profit
        or buick lying through their teeth about just how many cubic inches a 6.6 liter engine is, or partnering with olds for the turbocharged aluminum V6, or olds and their "police apprehender package" or the "yeah it was totally assembled somewhere else and not in a garage directly across the street" hurst/oldses, or the plain jane cutlass outselling the chevelle/malibu for several years straight
        or saturn ignoring everything GM told them to do and just imitating japanese manufacturing lines, cutting out dealership markups, and inviting thousands of saturn owners to a yearly gathering at the plant in a show of brand loyalty that would make mopar guys blush

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Pontiac for a while were the cheapest brand you could get the Northstar V8 in, meaning you could get a fairly quick car for about as much as it cost to buy a Chevrolet.

      The way I see it, it makes sense to do that purely from a bean-counter marketing standpoint. The very idea of what constitutes a "luxury" car has changed a lot. It's almost entirely shaped around performance. Keeping your performance brand separate from your luxury brand doesn't make sense when the market demands both in the same car and at that pricepoint. VP of marketing wants a car he can whip around on weekends, and leather seats so that the load he shoots on the intern's face can be wiped up easily before his lunchbreak is up. In the days of yore, those would be two separate cars.

      This might be true for more mid-level luxury brands like BMW and Jaguar but there still is a market for top end ultra luxe which is why stuff like Rolls Royce and Maybach exist. Cadillac were originally meant to operate in that echelon. It's because Caddy got pushed downmarket that their buyers have come to expect them to offer more roadholding performance because they can't afford to have a 'weekend' car. It used to be that Oldsmobile was the more performance luxury brand, now Cadillac is filling that niche. Which is probablh why Oldsmobile was the first of the 'classic' GM badges to get the axe.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      From what I understand, Pontiac was often internally sabotaged or shot down to preserve muh Corvette/chevy brand recognition so most cool projects never saw the light of day or were neutered.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Cadillac had already taken a turn for sport-luxury segment with the Sigma platform which predates that Zeta
      Cadillac also used the platform before Zeta, it was Pontiac that was trying to move up market with it instead of using Chevy plataforms for the last gorillion years. It was at the very end that GM tried to differentiate Pontiac with the Aztek, Vibe, Solstice and G8 but it went fricking nowhere.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >differentiate Pontiac with the Aztek, Vibe, Solstice and G8
        The only one of those that wasn't already a rebadge of another car is the Aztek which was later rebadged itself into a Buick. Pontiac hadn't had a brand identity for decades by the time they killed it.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The Solstice isn't a rebadge lmao.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            it's worse than that. it's a parts bin special lmao

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            and a gallardo is a rebaged r8. the new dodge colt is an afla guilia underneath. whats your stupid point kid?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >whats your stupid point kid?
            The point is:

            >differentiate Pontiac with the Aztek, Vibe, Solstice and G8
            The only one of those that wasn't already a rebadge of another car is the Aztek which was later rebadged itself into a Buick. Pontiac hadn't had a brand identity for decades by the time they killed it.

            Pontiac hadn't had a brand identity for decades by the time they killed it.

            Learn to context, you stupid b***h.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Man Bentleys share parts with Skodas, parts bin doesn't mean shit besides the rear end parts from the CTS (which aren't a bad thing) and to some extent the transmission shared with trucks

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >the new dodge colt
            > is an afla guilia underneath
            What did he mean by this?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            is that new? fricking genius readin comp

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >is that new?
            Post a newer Colt. I'll wait...

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The way I see it, it makes sense to do that purely from a bean-counter marketing standpoint. The very idea of what constitutes a "luxury" car has changed a lot. It's almost entirely shaped around performance. Keeping your performance brand separate from your luxury brand doesn't make sense when the market demands both in the same car and at that pricepoint. VP of marketing wants a car he can whip around on weekends, and leather seats so that the load he shoots on the intern's face can be wiped up easily before his lunchbreak is up. In the days of yore, those would be two separate cars.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >the market demands both in the same car and at that pricepoint
      The problem is that the price of cars these days is so high that even the VP of marketing can't afford two cars. He needs one car that can fill both roles for 20% more.

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Please show me one(1) Pontiac vehicle that isn't a reskinned Chevy shitbox

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fiero
      Solstice
      Aztek
      Most prewar Pontiacs
      G8
      00s GTO
      First generation Tempest
      1969 Grand Prix

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Shit
        >Ugly shit outsold by the Miata every year
        >Ugly shit
        >shit no one wanted
        >too late to the game
        >actual import
        >Boomer shit

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Terrible taste. Utterly pitiful

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >>Shit
          So was the rx7/8 lmao which is why they get LS swapped.
          >>Ugly shit outsold by the Miata every year
          It also shit on the miata according to the drift asiatic
          >shit no one wanted
          No one wanted any of the 90s JDM shit, either. which is why they're mostly all dead.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Every single one was equal to or better than the Chevrolet equivalent. Regardless, you asked for Pontiacs not based on Chevrolets, not "Pontiacs I personally think are good"

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Pontiac was GM's Dodge

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Chevy was GM's dodge. Pontiac was GM's AMC.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Chevy was equivalent to Plymouth. Cheap no-frills transportation commonly bought for fleet use. The 'budget three' were Chevy, Plymouth, and Ford. Dodge were more like halfway between Pontiac and Oldsmobile. Chrysler proper was around Buick and Mercury's level. (Ford didn't have a mid-priced 'performance' name). Imperials were up with Lincoln and Cadillac.
        AMC was never sold as a Chrysler brand, MOPAR didn't buy them until after AMC had died and they only bought them to get Jeep. Eagle I guess were sort of their successor, but Eagle didn't last very long and was more aimed at Saturn than anybody. If anything, AMC were like the proto-Saturn.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >The only good car Pontiac ever made

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Not even the best """GTO"""

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Zoomer here, was pontiac meant to be upscaled + performance?
    Basically the camaro is too barebones and plastic but cadillac is too expensive and premium?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Saturn was cheap and innovative in a weird way
      pontiac was fast and cool
      cadillac was luxorious and BIG car+engine
      chevy was minivans, trucks, and conventional cars
      oldsmobile was in between cadillac and chevy, so luxorious but smaller+cheaper then caddy
      >t.29yr old lore learner

      If cadillac is pontiac GM is dead and it's over

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >chevy
        Yet chevy does make the camaro and corvette
        So fast and cool makes no sense for pontiac
        Basically, what is the need for pontiac besides having reskinned camaros as their fast and cool car?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Chevy soon about to lose both Camaro and Vette

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    cadilac raced at leman in the 50's. your whole post is bullshit because you dont know shit

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Coor
    Ald
    Digger
    Ihinks
    Lt
    Ls
    A
    Cadillac

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

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