Lugging the engine

Hello, DA
When I am going slowly in second gear and then I need to introduce a lot of load quickly, I end up lugging the engine, and I am not sure what to do.
For example, I am at the minimum speed in second gear coming to a stop at a red light, barely above idle, and then the light turns green, so I have to go faster. When I give it throttle, the car vibrates, and clearly the engine is being lugged.
Other times are when I am at a slow speed on flat ground, and then I get onto a hill. Trying to push it up causes the engine to be similarly upset.
In both cases, my car is traveling too fast to just put into first. It doesn't let me go into first unless I am going very slowly.
Some say that you should never go into first gear unless you are moving from a stop or are at a very slow speed. Instead, they say you should slip the clutch in second until you get up to speed.
Others say to never slip the clutch like this, and that as long as your car has synchros in first, which mine does, it is perfectly fine to downshift to first gear.
What is your opinion on this?

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Another much more common situation: a 25 mph road where I have to make a turn. I am in second gear traveling this speed, and then I slow down to 10 mph to make the turn, so very low RPMs, but not low enough to just put it into first. When I try to accelerate, the car vibrates and the engine is likely being lugged.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I'm pretty sure you should be stopping before you make the turn anyways, op.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >slow down to 10 mph to make the turn
      Kys

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        A couple times riding with one of my big CEO family members in the back of an S500L or something and the cheaffeurs would slow right down for every corner. While it infuriated me, I could understand how if the passengers felt any sort of noticable shifting that the cheaffeur would likely get fired.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Anon if you came to a complete stop LIKE YOU SHOULD you would completely avoid this situation.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      slip the clutch, raise rpms.
      Better to wear the clutch then to bog the engine.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    You can double clutch to get into first or just not give so much gas. I wouldn't make a habit of using the clutch to accelerate in a higher gear, personally.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      If the gear ratio of first is double the second, then do I need to double the RPMs to get from second into first when downshifting?
      I know it's not supposed to be like a precise science, but what if I try to do this and then first is still locked out? I'll just have to test and see I guess.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        yes that is correct. You can also try starting in 1st and driving up to that speed, e.g. 25mph, to see what your rpm should be when downshifting. Do double clutch if you don't want to destroy your synchros.
        Also as the other guy said, just roll onto the throttle more gradually and don't push it down too far until you're a bit higher in the rpms. Nothing wrong with being lower in the rpms, just don't fricking floor it. Be gentle.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Double clutching not rev matching. You should do both but the double clutch is what lets you get into first easily. So just go to neutral, clutch out, instantly clutch in while putting some pressure on the shifter and it should slide right in to first. It's the one useful application for double clutching, I have never driven a car that liked downshifting to first.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Hmm okay. Do you need to rev while it's in neutral?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            No just when you let out the clutch to start accelerating

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            > Literally moronic

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >I have never driven a car that liked downshifting to first.
          Are you a eruopoor that has only driven shitboxes like peugots and cleos?
          Because every American manual transmission I've driven had no issues with downshifting to first, in any circumstance.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            My dad's old Ford Mondeo really didn't like downshifting to the first gear. Had to quickly flick through the second to get the first to engage without considerable use of force, no matter what the previous gear was.
            I suspect someone had broken the synchro at some point though. The whole gearbox felt like crap compared to some cars I've driven since then.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >mondeo
            That's still europoor spec.
            Although technically it was available in the U.S. under different nameplates it wasn't an "American" car so honestly not sure hiw the transmission compares- never driven a manual version.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It was pretty crap in most regards as far as I remember.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        You can do some google searches to figure out what gear set you have in the car. The most common difference between 1&2 seems to be around 1.75 so if you're car is doing 1000 rpms, spike it to 1750 rpms and hit 1st. But several cars (mostly pickups) are actually more than 2:1 difference between 1&2

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Another thing I've heard is a sort of rev match but instead of blipping the throttle, you just put your foot on the throttle and gently push it into first gear. It will just "slip in," once the correct RPM is reached, and at that point you can just slowly let off the clutch.

          It's 1.92 for mine. So that is why I find more difficulty than others :/
          >1st 2nd
          >3.38 1.76

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >When the 1- 2 shift is a bigger step than the 2-5 shift

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's not tho, 5th gear is 0.70

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          I find that you should go slightly above the rpm difference between 2nd and 1st gear to get a clean shift, but the important thing is to have the ballpark right and then practice the feel from there

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    If your car struggles to accelerate at low RPMs, just shift down or give it some time. Stressing the engine to the limit isn't a good thing.

    >Other times are when I am at a slow speed on flat ground, and then I get onto a hill. Trying to push it up causes the engine to be similarly upset.
    You can plan ahead better than this. GIve it some gas, maybe build up a bit of speed before you reach the hill if you can.
    If it's a small-ish engine that heavily depends on a turbocharger for its power output, it might pull harder and avoid this with the turbo already spun up.

    >If the gear ratio of first is double the second, then do I need to double the RPMs to get from second into first when downshifting?
    It could help, depending on how crap the gearbox is. Matching the revs when shifting is probably good for the clutch anyway.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >In both cases, my car is traveling too fast to just put into first. It doesn't let me go into first unless I am going very slowly.

    If you want to get into 1st in this situation and you've never double clutched, here's the steps you need to follow:

    1) stab clutch pedal in, get knob into N, clutch out. one quick motion.
    2) your left foot should be off any pedal now. blip the thottle (foot on, foot off) with your right foot.
    3) clutch in (your right foot should be off the throttle by now).
    4) as you keep the clutch pedal in, gently attempt (with a continuous gentle push, not several stabs) to get the knob into 1st as the revs are dropping. The push should be hard enough to get into gear but soft enough so that there is no grinding noise. As the revs go past the correct range, the knob should be "sucked" into 1st with very little effort.
    4.b) if the revs get to idle and the knob was never "sucked" into 1st, your blip was too weak. Go back to step 2 and blip harder.
    5) Clutch out and keep driving.

    The first few tries you'll either blip too low (gear won't go in at all), or you'll have to wait for ages for the revs to drop so the gear finally goes in. As you repeat this move, you'll get used to the feel and you'll instinctively know how hard to blip. In the end you'll get better at the blip, which is the main point of getting the whole thing working. If the blip is right your "continuous gentle push" into 1st will become a gentle move into 1st with no waiting time.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I'm going to practice this at every stop sign.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      You don't have to blip to get it into the gear, the double clutch matches that's the point. Let out clutch in neutral, input shaft spins to the proper speed, immediate clutch in while putting in gear and away you go

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        No just when you let out the clutch to start accelerating

        How come every tutorial I look up involves blipping the throttle while it is in neutral?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          when you're downshifting you blip the throttle so the input shaft matches the output shaft speed. Since you're crawling up a hill at such a slow speed already, simply just shifting to neutral without blipping the throttle may be enough to get the input and output shaft speeds to match.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Because

          You don't have to blip to get it into the gear, the double clutch matches that's the point. Let out clutch in neutral, input shaft spins to the proper speed, immediate clutch in while putting in gear and away you go

          is moronic, and doesn't know the difference between downshifting and upshifting. You do have to blip the throttle when downshifting.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I said you should rev match, but you won't need to rev match to double clutch to enter first from a lugged second gear.

            >Let out clutch in neutral, input shaft spins to the proper speed
            nope. the clutch connects the engine. the engine revs are not the 'proper speed' when they're falling to idle and you're trying to downshift

            You don't know the purpose of double clutching, and that's ok! If it was just a matter of engine speed you would simply rev up the engine and put it easily into first, but yet it doesn't want to go in?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            dumbfrick redditor

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm smarter, have more time driving manual, and have spent less time on reddit than you. Go try downshifting to first, once by only double clutching and once by revving your engine. I'll wait.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            you are delusional

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, delusional to reply as if you aren't an underage bus rider. Do you grasp the issue with shifting into first? You know the feeling? Even when you are slowed way down crawling at parking lot speed the b***h still won't slot in?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            as everyone already said, blip in neutral

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >doubling down on stupid

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            What a moron

            For the sake of other anons who don't know but want to learn, a quick rundown on manual transmission shifting.

            Imagine 3 shafts - one is your engine (forget the pistons / the crank), two are your transmission.
            Your engine output shaft is your engine speed, the third shaft is your wheel speed, and the speed of the second shaft is some multiple of the wheel speed determined by the gear you're in; when you're in neutral, the second shaft might as well be standing still.
            If you would try changing gears while all three shafts are linked and transferring torque/power, you could just break something in your transmission, which is why there's a clutch between shaft 1 and 2.
            To reconnect shaft 1 (the engine) and shaft 2 without jerking the car, they need to be going the same speed. To connect shaft 2 and 3 (go from *N*eutral to some gear), shaft 2 and 3 need to be going the same speed. When you upshift, the rpms on shaft 2 are naturally falling as you pass through neutral, and the synchromesh (mini-clutches at each gear) take up the remaining slack. Whe you're downshifting, the synchromesh must *accelerate* shaft 2 using shaft 3's power (the wheels / inertia). You could get into 1st gear just by riding the synchromesh (gently pushing on the stick), which will wear it out, but work. The enthusiast, "I love my car" way to do the downshift, especially when going from 2nd to 1st (biggest raw RPM difference), is to go to neutral (all 3 shafts spinning independently), letting out the clutch (engine - shaft 1 - and shaft 2 connected, shaft 3 NOT connected), spinning up the engine so that shaft 2 (and therefore also shaft 1) are going as fast as shaft 3, clutching (disconnecting shaft 1 and 2, so there's no torque being sent), and pushing the transmission into gear (shaft 2 and 3 connected). Ideally, you should do it fast enough so you can let out the clutch while all 3 shafts are still going at more-or-less the same speed.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            everyone knows except him

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Heres a pretty good film that everyone should watch. Explains everything better than modern man can

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Let out clutch in neutral, input shaft spins to the proper speed
        nope. the clutch connects the engine. the engine revs are not the 'proper speed' when they're falling to idle and you're trying to downshift

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    There's also the option to slow down completely until I can actually get into first without needing to double clutch, and then proceed.

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    If you double clutch and spike the throttle, you can easily shift into 1st at 25 mph in nearly anything. If you have an 80s pickup with a 6.33:1 Granny low, I can do it at 10 mph

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    you should slip the clutch. that's what it's for

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Instead, they say you should slip the clutch in second until you get up to speed.
    yes

    the clutch is a wear item thats what it's for

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    ur mum lugged my nuts

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Sitting at 30% of your available rev range is fine and your engine appreciates the leverage a lot more than being lugged along.

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Didnt read. Dont lug the engine though.

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe get a car with a modern transmission

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    you can use first gear but you can also slip clutch in second gear if needs momentarily

    wondorous that americans are as stupid as women what comes to manual gears

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's because youre driving a shitbox not some high end luxury racer.
    dont try to act a part when your shit falls apart

  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    My opinion is you're a pussy who's scared to rev your engine.

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