Minimal ethanol content worth switching for?

I'm contemplating switching to E85 to get more power out of my track car. However I just tested the only available E85 available to me to be around 67% ethanol.
Would such a low ethanol content even be worth it compared to the ethanol free 102RON fuel I'm currently using.

Also after waiting for a really long time the mixture of E85 and water actually separated into 4 layers instead of 2.
>0 to 5 ml
clear
>5 to 74ml
foggy white
>74 to 80ml
clear
>80 to 100ml
yellow-ish

I added 20ml of water to 80ml of E85.
I got to 67.5% by (74ml layer -20ml water)/80ml fuel = 0.675

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  1. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    How much boost did you build for?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Long answer:
      depends on your local source for ethanol fuel, or your overall budget. Do you really want to spend $1000 on a 55gallon drum you'll now have to hold in your garage forever? Does your engine need help lowering temps instead of just installing more/better coolers? Can your ECU tune on the fly for any ethanol content from 0 to 95%? Are you willing to upgrade fuel system, and ECU to tune on the fly and handle E85 regularly? Are you _really_ running enough boost in your track car to actually justify ethanol for more power? Are you going to turbo nerd and test each tank of ethanol to verify if its 65% or 85%?
      If you answered no to any of these questions, don't convert to E85.

      Short answer: no its not worth switching for. Practice more and be a better driver. 50 more horsepower for a track car won't actually make you faster.

      Thanks for your replies. The car is NA. The reason I'm looking at ethanol is primarily to get more power out of the engine without significant modification like installing high CR pistons. Comparatively installing a fuel pump, some fuel lines, a flex fuel sensor and injectors is peanuts.

      Engine is running on an ME221 Gen 2 standalone ecu. It is capable of running on any blend of ethanol and adjusting on the fly.
      Intake, exhaust, cams and valves have already been upgraded on the car. So next step would be increasing CR or adding boost. But I'm just not ready to go there yet. E85 seems like an easy way to get some extra power, almost for free.

      >Do you really want to spend $1000 on a 55gallon drum you'll now have to hold in your garage forever
      No, which is why I'm looking to run on E85 from the pump. If I bought a barrel I could get a guaranteed 85% ethanol batch.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >
        E85 on n/a is tarded unless you have a big cube v8

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          From what I've seen online looks like you get an uplift in peak hp of about 10%
          If I go in expecting more than that, that would be moronic. But if I go in knowing what I can expect I don't see the problem there. People also put on expensive aftermarket exhausts, when most of the time you're lucky to gain even 10hp.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Thanks for your replies. The car is NA.
        You will lose power on ethanol.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          You are wrong. Naturally aspirated engines also do have a small power increase on E85 if the tuning is done properly, but the power increase isn't so high as it does on forced induction engines.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            NTA but not really. Ethanol has less energy than regular gasoline. Why ethanol is used in some applications is because it burns cooler, and resists pre-detonation under high boost and high compression. If you have an NA engine your air stays the same but to continue making the exact same power, you must use something like 25% more ethanol by volume. But because it burns cooler you can run slightly leaner so in reality to make optimal power you're using 20% more fuel. Injectors running at higher duty and much poorer fuel efficiency. Efficiency isn't a big deal for a track toy, however if your track is 10 miles from an E85 pump, you're simply going to have to refuel much more often paying more in fuel, all for something like 5-10 more horsepower.

            Again, switching to E85 will not give any appreciable power bump considering all the downsides associated. You're still better off using more bolt-ons and practicing.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >all for something like 5-10 more horsepower in naturally aspirated engine.
            Even 17hp increase in some cases, if the ignition timing is also properly adjusted for E85.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Once again, 17hp at the very best case scenario after tuning and a bunch of work put in at the very tippy top of a dyno chart.

            At the expense of tuning
            At the expense of more expensive fuel costs
            At the expense of harder wear on the fuel system and engine

            Compound that with your'e not always going to be at the very tippy top of the power band while racing around a track. And you're not always going to get exactly E85; you might be getting E65 like OP showed. Sounds like a lot of stupidity and expense to gain [in reality] 2-5 horsepower in usable real world driving/racing assuming OPs car is not "best case".

            But again, nobody recommends all that bullshit for what amounts to a 2 degree temperature difference on the race track in ambient air temp. You (or someone else) is dead set on switching to E85 because you read on reddit of all places it might give a miniscule power bump.

            Unironically, a clean and well-waxed car would give a similar performance gain. 10lb weight reduction would give a similar performance gain. Being a better driver would be infinitely better than some convoluted fuel change.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Ethanol has less energy than regular gasoline.
            Not when you factor in the differences in stoichiometric ratio between ethanol and gasoline, then e85 becomes more energy dense per lb of air drawn in (airflow being the limiting factor for power on any combustion engine)

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Not when you factor in the differences in stoichiometric ratio between ethanol and gasoline
            wrong wrong wrong. For a given gallon of Ethanol versus a gallon of gasoline, gasoline wins every time. You're not going to say otherwise when math, chemistry, and physics says otherwise.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >But I'm just not ready to go there yet. E85 seems like an easy way to get some extra power, almost for free.
        Buddy, if you think switching to E85 would give any car instantly more power, you don't even know what you don't know about the fuel. Just stop, seriously. And theres no fricking way you have cams and valves upgraded on the car. Why would you "upgrade" valves on a nearly stock engine?

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          NTA but there's oxygen in ethanol. It will quite literally give any car instantly more power with a tune. Even if you don't take advantage of the higher octane rating.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Alright buddy go use ethanol all you want, seems like you're dead set on using it despite asking for input and nobody recommending it.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            You're confusing me for OP. DA should really add usernames like on reddit. Would make things so much clearer

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            The whole point of this place is to be an ANONYMOUS IMAGE BOARD.

            Maybe go to reddit or a actual car forum specializing in the subject instead of asking a completely random audience with no repercussion for misinformation.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            So does Q/C16 and that does frick all without a tune. Except for Q16, but you'll just lose less power due to heatsoak on hot days.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          e85 is almost never, anywhere close to 85%. It's common for the mix to be anywhere from 45 to 75%

          NTA but there's oxygen in ethanol. It will quite literally give any car instantly more power with a tune. Even if you don't take advantage of the higher octane rating.

          >eth blend is oxygenated
          That's a small part of it, the other part is the air temp drop with e85. The primary benefit of e85 is to maximize timing advance for the WOT/PE tables.
          Assuming the injectors are sized for the 9.5-10.5 AFR you'll need, you'll be lucky to see a 3% gain. On a 500HP stang GT this is 515HP, which at that power level is not enough to matter.

  2. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Long answer:
    depends on your local source for ethanol fuel, or your overall budget. Do you really want to spend $1000 on a 55gallon drum you'll now have to hold in your garage forever? Does your engine need help lowering temps instead of just installing more/better coolers? Can your ECU tune on the fly for any ethanol content from 0 to 95%? Are you willing to upgrade fuel system, and ECU to tune on the fly and handle E85 regularly? Are you _really_ running enough boost in your track car to actually justify ethanol for more power? Are you going to turbo nerd and test each tank of ethanol to verify if its 65% or 85%?
    If you answered no to any of these questions, don't convert to E85.

    Short answer: no its not worth switching for. Practice more and be a better driver. 50 more horsepower for a track car won't actually make you faster.

  3. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >leave fuel in an open container
    >it absorbs moisture from the atmosphere while the ethanol and gasoline evaporate.
    You're a special kind of moron.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >for like 10 minutes

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Bull-fricking-shit.
        Fuel doesn't separate like OP pic in 10 minutes.
        moron.

  4. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I wouldn't bother if your Miata is at stock compression. E85 won't pre-detonate, so you'll get the most power out of a high compression NA or running high boost on FI. You'd have to burn more E85 to get the same power as gas, so you'd need bigger injectors. Just port your heads or something.

    One of my friends has a 340i, with intake, downpipe, tune, and a flex fuel kit. He can only run up to E50, but he makes somewhere around 480. Even if it's not full E85, it absolutely still works on the right setup.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Where did he say he had Miata,Eunos Roadster, the slowgay cope cruiser? This board is truly pozzed.

  5. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    It is always worth. Even racing fuel,ethanol free, is the sandBlack folk' liquid poo. Ethanol is the spirit of white man, the liquid of Gods.

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