why cant they make manual transmission EVs?

why cant they make manual transmission EVs?

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why is yurop still stuck in the 20th century?

    >muh expierance

    Frick you, normal drivers don't need any of that shit.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    evs are gay they are physically incapable of haveing a straight transmission

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    They easily could.
    If EVs used smaller electric motors it might even make sense.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >If EVs used smaller electric motors it might even make sense

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      How much smaller are you thinking? Even this will easily shred a gearbox.

      There's just no reason to go multi-gear for most street legal cars. Even conversions that keep the transmission often just keep the car in a single gear when driving instead of shifting as if it was connected to an internal combustion engine. They don't even need to shift to reverse since the motor can just spin the other way.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        No torque multiplication ever? Welp, then have fun keep getting clapped by my 2.3T from 2008 indefinitely.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >No torque multiplication ever?
          No, there is but it is generally a fixed gear ratio optimized for its use. Also when the motors are this small, throwing more motors at the problem is a valid solution.
          These aren't even the best axial flux electric motors.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because it would be tricky to implement. Electric motors spin at something like 9000 rpm in regular use, but have very little rotating mass. Which makes rev matching complicated, and possibly damaging to the car's systems when botched.
    A simpler implementation would be a transfer case with hi and lo gearing, that you switch while stopped. You'd have town mode (for better acceleration), and highway mode (for better economy).

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Because it would be tricky to implement. Electric motors spin at something like 9000 rpm in regular use, but have very little rotating mass. Which makes rev matching complicated, and possibly damaging to the car's systems when botched.
      >A simpler implementation would be a transfer case with hi and lo gearing, that you switch while stopped. You'd have town mode (for better acceleration), and highway mode (for better economy).
      Better solution would be twin engines with a diff in the middle with hi/low gear sets selected hydraulically via hydrostat
      Have one engine for eco in high range or dual in high range for top speed or dual in low Range for off the mark acceleration

      None of this will be worthwhile until theres more advanced batteries (solid state)

      As an ice gay i like evs but the batteries are a massive letdown and the gearing and single speeds hold back evs massively

      Why isnt there better fluid coupling tech being done like what heavy industries have or koinsegggs

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Currently EV battery tech works for 80% of the USA population's personal vehicles.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Currently EV battery tech works for 80% of the USA population's personal vehicles.
          Aussies basically abandoned EVs for the precise reason that we cant always stop every 200-500km to charge the c**t and makes long road trips impossible and the fact it takes that distance or more to get a tow if you pop a tyre on shitty vic nsw roads it's a no brainer

          Funny as 5-10 years ago teslas everywhere now i barely see them glad the fads over

          Whats stupid is that the original Tesla roadster had a frickin gearbox even if it was a lotus

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >fads over
            Kek, disproved your entire post there. Every quarter EV market share has increased.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >fads over
            >Kek, disproved your entire post there. Every quarter EV market share has increased.
            Lol in the normiefrick suv segment maybe i dont give a total frick i got my old aussie classics and have trucks and diesels for actual work
            Evs for anything outside of 50km wankable cities commute are dogshit

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Fads don't exist outside of cities...saying that the fad is over if you ignore cities is like saying women aren't prostitutes if we ignore your mother.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Fads don't exist outside of cities...saying that the fad is over if you ignore cities is like saying women aren't prostitutes if we ignore your mother.
            I see teslas in tiny remote country towns hours away from anywhere

            Thankfully im seeing less

            >Whats stupid is that the original Tesla roadster had a frickin gearbox even if it was a lotus
            They considered a 2 speed transmission in a prototype, but it wasn't included in the final car which was fixed gear like all the later Teslas.
            Performance Tesla cars today do have two ratios, by having one ratio on the front motor, and a different ratio for the rear motor(s).

            The production Porsche Taycan has a 2 speed transmission on the rear motor, but it is so they can have a gear specifically for a faster launch.

            Why is it always two steps forward and literally one back with evs

            >gearing and single speeds hold back evs massively
            If that were true, EVs would have transmissions. There is an enormous transmission and gearing supply chain already. But you don't see that. The Porsche Tycan has a little automatic two speed, but that's about it.

            Tesla spent that weight and monetary budget on just increasing max RPM of the motor and that resulted in the Plaid.

            322km isnt that impressive but sure ok respectable

            Real question is will these ever get a drop in solid state battery upgrade

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Real question is will these ever get a drop in solid state battery upgrade
            Now that solid state batteries are in production at automotive scale and fast charging is standardizing, there is a good possibility of that happening.
            The current 360Wh/kg mass production cells may only be 44% better instead of the doubling or tripling of the now confirmed limited production cells, but that is still enough to put 3 gallon equivalent in a Model 3 without making it heavier.

            >322km isnt that impressive
            Gear ratios on an electric motor aren't going to make a significant (or any difference at all) in range. The only reason to have them is faster launch or higher top speed.
            You would be looking at best at a low single digit difference in Wh/mi, and there are a lot of other things that can effect that, and get larger gains.
            Like just having another 40kg of batteries at the old 250Wh/kg that is another 10kWh, a pretty significant amount of stored energy.

            >I see teslas in tiny remote country towns hours away from anywhere
            EVs are actually great for that. Removes the dependence on the truck re-filling the local gas station. Especially if you're replacing a car that needed premium.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I think that, with higher capacity batteries, two trends will emerge.
            On the one hand, some vehicles will keep getting larger (120+ kWh) battery packs, to make them more acceptable for the range anxiety crowd. On the other hand, I can see Euromini-style cars sticking with 53+/-2 kWh battery packs, in order to take advantage of the smaller size and lower weight. The inbetweeners (60-80 kWh) will wither away, since they're neither fish nor fowl. Not enough range for a proper long-distance drive (not at decent highway speeds, anyway), nor light/compact/cheap enough for a town runabout.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            As someone who already drives an EV with around a 60kWh pack without issue I think it really just comes down to how quickly capacity increases, and how much that capacity costs.
            There is a very real chance that when the production difficulties are sorted out, high capacity solid state cells that do not need any rare material input, could be extremely cheap.

            So it could be that there is no sensible reason why a 6.2 mile a kWh car like the new Twingo needs more than 60kWh, but if there is no cost or physical barrier to having more it might be that more stored energy becomes standard and car manufacturers come up with more ways to use and market that additional storage capacity.
            I can see there being a preference towards more stored energy simply so owners don't need to think about how much range they have, the car could just manage the charging to maximize pack life while also maintaining 300 miles of range in all conditions. So instead of a 60kWh pack having 200 to 300 miles of range depending on the season, a 120kWh pack would charge to 60% or 80% state of charge depending on the time of year to always have 300 miles of daily range available.

            Kind of like how today most of us have computers that would have been Supercomputers only a few decades ago, but they manage their energy use depending on how they are being used. We may not need their full capacity all the time, and a lot of people could probably get away with much weaker systems, but there is no reason not to have it unless you're in abject poverty.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Mawst uf us habb combuta dawa suba-combuta da past
            have a nice day please.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >if there is no cost or physical barrier
            That's the thing, regardless of how good battery tech gets, larger battery = heavier, more expensive battery. Since the biggest issues with electric cars are price and weight, with range coming in third, it seems logical that automakers will keep putting smaller, lighter, cheaper batteries in city cars, keeping larger batteries for typical Xoomerbait crossovers.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >regardless of how good battery tech gets, larger battery = heavier, more expensive battery
            It really depends just what kind of improvement you're looking at. Currently this has been true because the cost of NMC batteries rebounded up with demand, and LFP batteries were cheaper but heavier.
            If a 750Wh/kg battery needs 1/3 the material input as a current cell, and doesn't require any of the expensive materials a 120kWh pack could cost under $4000 and weigh about half a current pack, at least in terms of the cost and weight of the cells.
            It could also be that there is a floor to the weight and cost of a main EV battery pack because no matter what you need the material strength since it is a structural component in most cars.

            Another potential wrinkle would be if the capacity of those currently best disclosed working initial production cells become available, it might make more sense to build cars with small very long-lived 40 or 60kWh packs, and have a standard format range-extender packs that can be loaded into the car for trips.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Whats stupid is that the original Tesla roadster had a frickin gearbox even if it was a lotus
            They considered a 2 speed transmission in a prototype, but it wasn't included in the final car which was fixed gear like all the later Teslas.
            Performance Tesla cars today do have two ratios, by having one ratio on the front motor, and a different ratio for the rear motor(s).

            The production Porsche Taycan has a 2 speed transmission on the rear motor, but it is so they can have a gear specifically for a faster launch.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous
      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >gearing and single speeds hold back evs massively
        If that were true, EVs would have transmissions. There is an enormous transmission and gearing supply chain already. But you don't see that. The Porsche Tycan has a little automatic two speed, but that's about it.

        Tesla spent that weight and monetary budget on just increasing max RPM of the motor and that resulted in the Plaid.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    because electric motors don't need gearboxes to begin with

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      frick thats gay

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >usable torque form 0-200mph in 1st
    do you really need to scrap the bottom of the barrel so much to find a reason to make a thread about evs?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      usable, but not most efficient

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        The constant efficiency losses are greater than the gain from gears when accelerating

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    My country has an "Automatic license" for moronic drivers, they are only allowed to drive autotragics. Can't they just make a third type "EV" license?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      No point, driving an EV is like driving an auto

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why does that distinction even exist?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Do you want someone who never drove a manual before just jumping in one one day and driving around on the public road?
        We do the same thing in America but only for CMVs.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah? What's wrong with that?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Driving manual is a whole different skill, on top of the safe traffic skills. I'm assuming those permits are cheaper because driving is easier to learn. It says here typical student drivers need 10 to 12 lessons to learn driving stick and clutch, which translates to a few hundred euros cheaper

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Here, auto driving lessons are more expensive and the driving schools only have 1 or 2 automatic cars, or at least that was the case when I was learning in 2016. Anyway, I don't know why would you get an automatic license unless you are 60 or an amputee, even if you'll only drive automatic cars from now on, it's good to be able to drive a manual, just in case.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, so? I still don't understand. It's not like there's different rules to the road driving stick vs automatic.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Learning to drive has 2 components: Learning to control the car and learning the traffic laws. In an automatic, the first part is much easier so you it's cheaper to learn it

            Here, auto driving lessons are more expensive and the driving schools only have 1 or 2 automatic cars, or at least that was the case when I was learning in 2016. Anyway, I don't know why would you get an automatic license unless you are 60 or an amputee, even if you'll only drive automatic cars from now on, it's good to be able to drive a manual, just in case.

            A matter of culture I suppose. In most of Europe, almost all cars were manual until recently, and autotragics were a novelty. In the US, almost all cars have been autotragic since around the 70's from what I know. I'm sure there is a historic explanation to be found, in that we have much more cities and short trips, and the USA has more long distance roads and hours of driving

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm sure there is a historic explanation to be found, in that we have much more cities and short trips, and the USA has more long distance roads and hours of driving
            If anything, that'd make more sense to have more automatic in Europe as they are more useful in stop and go traffic than on the highway.
            The real reason is that Europe is poorer and old automatics cost more than manual and raped fuel economy + caused lots of power losses in the already weaker on average engines. Americans with big, torquey V8s and cheap gas didn't give a frick.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Old automatics like the TorqueFlite were also pretty xbawxhueg, so they were a poor fit to the small 1.whatever-liter engines that were the standard in Europe.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >USA has more long distance roads and hours of driving

            Which means manuals are fine.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I remember some states in aus where like this for provisional and full licence. Luckily when i couldn't drive manuals 20 years ago i just automatically got the manual licence in my state nsw at the time when i got a full licence

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        can't remember if my Ps had auto only because i took the test in an auto. once i got my full though that got removed. then a few years later i manual swapped and learned how to get going from a stop without kangarooing in three days

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Exactly EVs are baby cars for new drivers
    Experienced drivers want the bbc (bogan barra car)

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    They could, they just won't

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Do you like manual?
    Do you like fun?
    Do you like feeling the road and hearing your vehicle?

    Are you actually rich? No? Buy a motorcycle. Your car should be a boring econobox.

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >why cant they make manual transmission EVs?
    It defeats the purpose of EVs. Conventional transmissions exist to keep engines at their ideal revs for the use case.

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >why cant they make manual transmission EVs?
    I don't want an ev period.
    if you are an "ev enthusiast" you should not post on this board

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Opposite. If you're anti EV you should just leave. You're not a real car enthusiast.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        brown skin post

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          EVs are most popular amongst the light skinned. There's news stories about the racial disparity, how it's "problematic".

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            brown+troony also I will no shit stick an ice pick in your head.

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >still uses manuals
    >check country
    >third world shithole
    checks out

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    do they really have an EV endorsement, an Automatic endorsement, and a Manual endorsement?
    europe is a weird country

  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why would they do that? It's just extra cost. There is zero benefit. If you think putting a 5 speed in a s°ypod with a touch screen for a dash and an interior that looks like nothing is going to make it more fun, you're sorely mistaken. Have fun rev matching your electric motor for no reason. Have fun paying for a transmission that you don't need because the motor makes peak torque at 0rpm. At most an EV needs a two speed transmission to reach high top speeds.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Would you shut the frick up and learn how a motor works? Better yet get your fat fricking ass on a bicycle and learn how gears work.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >would you shut the frick up I know better than the entire EV industry and know that an EV needs a manual transmission because my geo metro does

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          The current "EV industry" is making 5000lb econoboxes with 200 miles of range. Yeah they sure know how to do shit.

          Please explain how you think an electric motor works.

          Nah I paid attention in elementary school and I'm not getting paid to teach you basic common sense. I suggest you break out your science textbooks or watch some Bill Nye.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The current "EV industry" is making 5000lb econoboxes with 200 miles of range. Yeah they sure know how to do shit.
            Notice how your argument conveniently omitted anything about the drawbacks or benefits of transmissions

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You think there might be a reason why they're so heavy and need massive battery packs? Maybe, just maybe that's related to the current draw of a motor/s at low speeds and high loads??? Read a book you fricking moron.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >introducing more drivetrain loss will magically make the batteries lighter
            keep going

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            They already have a gear reduction. It's not like having a few ratios to choose from has additional drag and the weight increase would be minimal. What you would have is a car that is more responsive and efficient in some cases and if you cant understand why, you're moronic.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            That's weird, I guess we've regressed since 6 years ago when I got my 3600lbs EV that goes 250 miles.

            >Nah I paid attention in elementary school
            I seriously doubt that if you don't understand why electric motors don't need multi-gear transmissions.

            You're not going to put a weak electric motor with a 5 speed transmission into a car with 1 gallon equivalent, and suddenly have 300 miles of range.
            Explain how you think it will.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            No EV on the market goes 250 miles under the worst case situations. Are you at all educated on how the amp draw curve of a motor works?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            No car achieves its EPA rating in the worst case conditions, and a multi-gear transmission isn't going to help with that.

            >Are you at all educated on how the amp draw curve of a motor works?
            Please enlighten us all with your secret wisdom.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            That shit is not a fricking secret lol. It's literally elementary school science.

            https://i.imgur.com/yitb4Nn.jpg

            >introducing more drivetrain loss will magically make up for the small efficiency curve variance of a modern electric motor which is only low at high torque demand and low speed
            continue

            So instead of a troony that takes 10% power and wastes it we should just use a 700hp motor and a 2000lb battery pack to feed it so we can get a 250 mile range?

            By the way, I didn't just throw that 300 miles on 1 gallon equivalent idea out randomly. It is entirely possible to engineer an electric car that can go 300 miles at 65mph on 1 gallon equivalent.
            I'll leave it to you to work out how they did it.

            Why are you bringing up the 300 miles and one gallon? It's not my fricking problem a 2000lb battery pack only packs as much energy as a gallon of gas.

            Like I said. You fat fricks should really try riding a bike. I think it's the only way you people are going to learn how load works.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >So instead of a troony that takes 10% power
            LOL, do you realize how much mechanical energy loss that would be?
            A multi-gear transmission is not going to get you more range with an EV.

            > It's not my fricking problem a 2000lb battery pack only packs as much energy as a gallon of gas.
            I also think you're understating the stored energy of a 2000lbs battery pack by quite a bit there.

            I'll give you a hint, the car I'm talking about that can do 300 miles on 1 gallon equivalent weighs less than that.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Do you not find it a little ironic how you keep sperging on about efficiency when you think 5000lb econoboxes that can only go 250 miles on a tank are efficient?

            >the car I'm talking about that can do 300 miles on 1 gallon equivalent weighs less than that.
            Are you referring to that sperm on wheels that doesn't exist?

            https://i.imgur.com/oi7O2qw.png

            >700hp motor
            >introducing more drivetrain loss will magically make a less powerful motor do the same thing as a more powerful one more efficiently
            proceed

            You know ICE's don't technically need multiple gears either right? They're also capable of making full torque at 0rpm downstream of the torque converter. You think there might be a reason why we use 10 speeds now days and not single speeds or 2 speed powerglides?

            It's funny how a 4 year old child knows using multiple gears on a bike makes it easier to pedal and go further but adults here are struggling lol.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You're the only one who keeps mentioning 5000lbs.
            I'm talking about a car that weighs under 2200lbs that does 300 miles on 1 gallon equivalent.
            You still haven't worked out how it would do that.

            >You know ICE's don't technically need multiple gears either right?
            Good luck with that. How many gallons is that going to burn through and what would its max speed be?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You're the only one who keeps mentioning 5000lbs
            Because that's what a relevant EV weighs...

            >I'm talking about a car that weighs under 2200lbs that does 300 miles on 1 gallon equivalent.
            Which is? That Apatow mobility scooter that doesn't exist?

            >How many gallons is that going to burn through
            Doesn't matter. The fuel you need to exceed the range of the EV is still going to weigh less than the battery pack on a EV.

            >what would its max speed be?
            Depends on what final gear you use. Current single speed ICE vehicles are hitting 330mph while still accelerating from 0 to 60 in 0.2 seconds. It's also funny how EV's can't do that lol but that's a different thread for another day.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Current single speed ICE vehicles are hitting 330mph while still accelerating from 0 to 60 in 0.2 seconds.

            Sauce on that? Sounds a bit too fast to be powered by a piston engine

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Because that's what a relevant EV weigh
            TIL my EV, one of the best selling, is 'irrelevant' LOL.

            >Depends on what final gear you use
            Sorry? I thought you claimed that this was an ICE with a fixed gear ratio, 'final gear' implies multiple.
            There is a reason why EVs and Steam Cars regularly use fixed ratios while Internal Combustion needs multiple gears.
            Internal combustion engines can't produce good torque except in a very narrow band.

            >that doesn't exist?
            There is a difference between not being in mass production and not existing.
            Explain how your multi-gear electric car is going to do better than 300 miles on 1 gallon.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >now ICEs and electric motors are the same and both make full torque at 0rpm
            yes this is good keep going

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            With a torque converter, you can use a single speed transmission. My forklift works quite well. It has solid tires and no suspension, and I mostly load/unload trucks so I have never and would never even hit top speed with it.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            ICE's make full torque at 0rpm with a torque converter. Again... common sense... You should know this before being in a place like this.

            [...]
            Are you damaged?

            >spergs about efficiency
            >now samegays and brings up torque converters, the bane of efficiency
            it's getting better

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            ICE's make full torque at 0rpm with a torque converter. Again... common sense... You should know this before being in a place like this.

            >Current single speed ICE vehicles are hitting 330mph while still accelerating from 0 to 60 in 0.2 seconds.

            Sauce on that? Sounds a bit too fast to be powered by a piston engine

            Are you damaged?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >700hp motor
            >introducing more drivetrain loss will magically make a less powerful motor do the same thing as a more powerful one more efficiently
            proceed

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >introducing more drivetrain loss will magically make up for the small efficiency curve variance of a modern electric motor which is only low at high torque demand and low speed
            continue

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            By the way, I didn't just throw that 300 miles on 1 gallon equivalent idea out randomly. It is entirely possible to engineer an electric car that can go 300 miles at 65mph on 1 gallon equivalent.
            I'll leave it to you to work out how they did it.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Please explain how you think an electric motor works.

  16. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    we don't have the technology

  17. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Got your lesson in EV driving right here

  18. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Nobody gives a frick about manual transmissions, when people talk about them they sound like autistic morons.

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