Why the frick are third members not the standard?

Why the frick are third members not the standard? How did people decide working on diff inside the damn axle is the superior way of doing things?
And why is only one differential always the dropout instead of both?

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Production cost. Maintenance on rarely disturbed lifetime parts like DeDion rear axles is not a consideration.

    Some front diffs a re hogshead style. Land Rover and Land Cruiser are famous examples.

    Most based for performance is the Halibrand quick change style which uses a banjo-style case. They're surprisingly affordable and the design dates back to the 1930s.

    https://1929modelaford.blogspot.com/2013/03/magnesium-310-halibrand-quickchange.html

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Correction, 1940s. The banjo stock Ford rears were of course plentiful then.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      There's no way a dropout diff with screw adjusters was harder and more costly for a factory than a production line of people frickin around with carriers and shims
      That also wouldn't explain why some cars like old Broncos had Dana44s on both end yet only the front was a dropout but not the rear. At that point it would definitively be cheaper to stick to one production process instead of splitting it

      Some of us have differential housings which are separate from our axles anon

      Yeah and that means this thread doesn't pertain to you, right?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Oh I'm sorry did you specify somewhere that this thread is only for the discussion of solid axles?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Not that anon but most of my job is rebuilding diffs. Idk factory process but imo skrews type adjusters are a bigger pita. How much of a turn moves .001? A shims a shim. Once you get used to it they're brain dead easy. Pinion adjustment is the difficult part, even then if you're only building a couple different diffs you probably get used to how it moves. (some gear sets it seems move a shit load with 3 or so thou adjustments, some I've moved 12 to 15 thou in three tries that might go 3, 5, 5 for example)
        The real benefit to drop outs like a 9 inch is you can have a spare set up and ready to go if it fails at the track. And of course there's arguments to be made for weight and well lots of shit but mostly it's about being repairable quickly.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Do you ever get diffs in that are unfixable, and why?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            If I were to be pedantic I'd say no, people built it, people can fix it. But knowing what you actually mean yes, there's some that don't make sense or that we're not tooled for. Usually it's about parts availability, some vehicles now are welding the ring gear to the carrier which can make things prohibitively expensive. And I remember a skrews type that spun it's bearings, spun the skrews, and fricked up the threads forcing a whole new assembly. Technically a guy could machine out some inserts Yada Yada get a new one that'd be way expensive.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Basically if it ain't on this list, we're probably getting the assembly. There's exceptions to that though. Failure to a point of irreparable is rare af as well. That spun skrews adjuster was the most recent and I can't remember how long ago that was, like maybe a whole year ago.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Oh and also there's plenty of skrews type adjustables without dropout, and dropouts that are shimmed.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    QRD?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Go be gay somewhere else

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why the frick are transaxles not the standard? How did people decide having three different fricking pieces is the superior way of doing things?
    Also why the frick do cars even bother putting more than 3 seats in bench configuration AT MOST in cars?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      pain in the ass to work on, complex to manufacture, but mostly if something goes wrong the entire drive train is fricked instead of the problem being located to a single unit

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Skill issue

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          shut the frick up wrenchlet

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Lies and slander. If we had of switched to these as standard all of these problems would have been solved 60 years ago. IMAGINE the utopia we could be living in right now.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Maybe the first two but not the last. Which is the beauty of a third member over carriers; shear teeth off the ring or pinion? Toss in a new one and you're done

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah but third members are gross because it forces you to use fr*nt engine designs instead of superior mid engine or rear engine designs as GOD intended

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Well I'm not talking about lowered pieces of shit I'm talking about 4x4 vehicles

            *laughs in 14 bolt FF*

            675,000 miles and only had 4 fluid changes in its life since 1985. Replaced axle seals once.

            The 14 bolt is gangster but it would be extra gangster with a dropout
            But it's still no Sterling

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >picture of Ferrari 330 P4
            >"lowered piece of shit"
            Black person IQ detected

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah anything thwarted by speed bumps and curbs is pretty moronic and a hefty price tag doesn't change it
            >also 2wd

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Why not both?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Acceptable... Barely...

            Yeah anything thwarted by speed bumps and curbs is pretty moronic and a hefty price tag doesn't change it
            >also 2wd

            >4WD
            I am vomit

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Seems pretty reasonable that if you pay all that money you should get to use all 4 wheels

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            you are using all four wheels all the time, moron.
            two to steer, two to transmit power.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Don't be intentionally pedantic

            Oh I'm sorry did you specify somewhere that this thread is only for the discussion of solid axles?

            Is critical thinking beyond your capabilities?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      It's good for weight distribution, but it's a pain in the ass to change the clutch on a C5 or newer Corvette with a trans axel compared to a traditional set up with the transmission at the engine. You have to drop the whole rear subframe.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Also why the frick do cars even bother putting more than 3 seats in bench configuration AT MOST in cars?
      What the frick are you trying to ask here?

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Some of us have differential housings which are separate from our axles anon

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    *laughs in 14 bolt FF*

    675,000 miles and only had 4 fluid changes in its life since 1985. Replaced axle seals once.

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >And why is only one differential always the dropout instead of both?
    My Bronco has a 9" and TTB.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      why does everyone despise the TTB. I have it on my f-250 and it hasnt had any issues

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Its the jack of all trades master of none, situation.

        They're perfectly fine of whats asked of most of them, provide enough clearance in cases light offroading, and not giving you death wobble or other issues while on roading.

        However the trade off is that its not as sturdy as a solid axle, and it eats tires while on the road. So what happens is you have the off road crowd shit on it for being unreliable, and the normal drivers don't like the tire wear it gives.

        But I'm like you I don't have a major issue with it, they can go ages with little maintenance.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >off road crowd shit on it
          Except they dominated Baja 500/1000 for decades and were only surpassed when Unlimited Trophy Truck was introduced with $250,000+ one-off money pits.
          TIB/TTB is extremely robust and annihilates anything else that's available from the factory.
          That's not an opinion, just a statement of fact with racing records to prove it.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            holy based. I will give my ferd a big sloppy wet kiss asap

            Not that anon but most of my job is rebuilding diffs. Idk factory process but imo skrews type adjusters are a bigger pita. How much of a turn moves .001? A shims a shim. Once you get used to it they're brain dead easy. Pinion adjustment is the difficult part, even then if you're only building a couple different diffs you probably get used to how it moves. (some gear sets it seems move a shit load with 3 or so thou adjustments, some I've moved 12 to 15 thou in three tries that might go 3, 5, 5 for example)
            The real benefit to drop outs like a 9 inch is you can have a spare set up and ready to go if it fails at the track. And of course there's arguments to be made for weight and well lots of shit but mostly it's about being repairable quickly.

            good to know I basically cant frick up my diffs beyond repair. Whats your opinion of DIY rebuilt diffs?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            My first rebuild was kinda diy. I was a mechanic already but only a couple years experience. That said, Ive seen some really fricked up jobs come in even from other shops guys not using pinion shims at all, one where the bearings were like half the size of what they should be so the carrier was just floating around. I can get more into detail after work with dos and don'ts

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            please

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            holy based. I will give my ferd a big sloppy wet kiss asap
            [...]
            good to know I basically cant frick up my diffs beyond repair. Whats your opinion of DIY rebuilt diffs?

            Alright I'm home and lubed up with drink to explain some shit. Number one, pretty sure you implied you have a Ford ttb. Gonna be a Dana axle that uses shims under the bearings. At work I have bearings machined to slide on by hand to test out for backlash. They sell a mock bearing to do the same job I've ever used it though can't speak to how good it is. You want to do this though because every time you pull the bearings to change the shims, you risk damaging the bearings. Dana also seems to like shimming the pinion behind the outer race of the inner bearing. Frick that, measure that shim with calipers, put that behind the actual roller bearing that's pressed onto the pinion itself. You're far less likely to damage that if you have to adjust depth, and the shims behind the outer race almost always get damaged in that scenario when removing that race. Technically speaking, it's the stronger way to shim the pinion, but it's not worth thinking about I promise you.
            Try some way to make sure you've got the right bearings. Easiest is matching old part numbers to new. If they match, good to go. However old bearings might have had the numbers worn off. If I'm questioning it, I tend to just find multiple sources from the internet. If they don't match, that doesn't necessarily mean they won't work. Call up the distributor and make sure that way if they'll work.
            The 8.8 you likely have in the rear, just on assumption, is gonna be shim as well. Start off on every rear possible to reuse the shims provided. Most times, with an oem gear set, you won't have to change shit. If the shims are worn normally in the area they contact the bearing, not usable. If you can feel a ridge with your finger nail, in the trash it goes.
            Need a break and another beer I've got more info

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Start off on every rear possible to reuse the shims provided.
            By this, I mean 2 things. Mainly, avoid super shim kits if at all possible. Not only are they a pita to use, they tend to wear out themselves and loosen up the carrier preload, I'd bet

            Literally yes
            In the past 4 years I had to readjust my lash (was trying to track down this weird, harsh clunk when I first got the car), then regeared about 18 months later, then installed a locker another year after that

            used em. He's not dumb for doing so if that's what happened, matter of fact he's smart for realizing shit has changed in the rear and he should take a look about it. Being a diy job, it might be your only choice but like I said, if using oem gears most of the time, not every time, most of the time, your original shims will set the right pattern. Original shims meaning both backlash and pinion depth. And if backlash is off, check to see if switching them side to side might work. It's worth it if you can reuse the carrier shims. Pinion is for a different reason. It's because even if it's not dead on, it'll be close (using oem gears) shims a shim on the pinion but start with what was in there already unless it's worn out or destroyed. That's what the depth means in my post here

            https://i.imgur.com/dBVPkNV.jpg

            Basically if it ain't on this list, we're probably getting the assembly. There's exceptions to that though. Failure to a point of irreparable is rare af as well. That spun skrews adjuster was the most recent and I can't remember how long ago that was, like maybe a whole year ago.

            It's for when shits real bad a good enough starting point. To further my point about super shim kits, pretty sure it's the right Pic, we keep all oem shims so we can have the right ones available. Even damaged ones we surface grind and keep. Obviously diy, can't do that just pointing out how much we avoid those things.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Here's another picture of a 9 inch I was doing today. I'm slow for business right now so was putting this together with shit in the back to maybe sell at a flea market or some shit.
            Obviously mark your bearing caps before removing them. What if you were caught up in the moment or it came from another shop all fricked up and you can't trust where they are? You look for witness marks. It's harder the newer shit is they keep getting better at making this shit the imperfections are harder to spot but in pic related you can see imperfections that will match together between the cap and the housing.

            How does internet work? My 4g was just banned for soliciting cp. Wanna know if there's a guy in my neighborhood that deserves a good ass kicking.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            In case you didn't see what I mean. It's not always a mark like this, might be a black smudge from a bit of dirt or whatever when they assembled it at the plant.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Or the way the cross hatches work. Use anything at your disposal in this way, but of course it's always best to just mark it somehow.
            Also, your first one, if it'll take any adjustments to make it work anyway, is going to be a hell of a ride. Unless maybe you've got machinist background because it's a lot about measuring and understanding your measuring tools. How to understand gear patterns? Well, the internet has a wealth of knowledge about how to move a pattern (don't feel like an idiot if it doesn't seem to work the way the internet says it will btw, but it will work) however I find they don't talk a lot about how to tell if the pattern is good. You're trying to get rid of these straight lines. A nice gearset, you can have straight lines on both sides though. This is that same 9"

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >which is probably what he used
            Nah I have a Toyota 8in

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >working on diff
    you do more than change the fluid once every 10 years?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Literally yes
      In the past 4 years I had to readjust my lash (was trying to track down this weird, harsh clunk when I first got the car), then regeared about 18 months later, then installed a locker another year after that

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    thanks bro, hopefully I wont have to rebuild a diff anytime soon, but I will save your info. Pretty cool job you have, fixing things is based. I think my rear is a 10.25

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      It's honestly shit most times but I did nearly shit my pants today test driving what I thought was a mild cam silverado ls engine that turned out to have a nice turbo. Didn't realize I was driving a 700hp monster until I got pissed off at an butthole merging at 30 and oh shit, I'm doing 100 lmao.
      Anyway

      https://i.imgur.com/ERDrtsq.jpg

      Or the way the cross hatches work. Use anything at your disposal in this way, but of course it's always best to just mark it somehow.
      Also, your first one, if it'll take any adjustments to make it work anyway, is going to be a hell of a ride. Unless maybe you've got machinist background because it's a lot about measuring and understanding your measuring tools. How to understand gear patterns? Well, the internet has a wealth of knowledge about how to move a pattern (don't feel like an idiot if it doesn't seem to work the way the internet says it will btw, but it will work) however I find they don't talk a lot about how to tell if the pattern is good. You're trying to get rid of these straight lines. A nice gearset, you can have straight lines on both sides though. This is that same 9"

      That pattern shows the pinion is too deep. It's easy to think about the straight line is deep into the tooth, pinion too deep. That's the drive side of the gear. Meaning the one that receives power under acceleration or load.
      Coast side, it's pattern was a bit wonky and wanted the pinion deeper. Drive side is more important. Drive side gets the power. Coast side might make noise is all and gets used in reverse. Yeah, I'm drunk...
      It is shit though 99% of the time I'm just a factory worker doing the same thing over and over again. Every diff works the same way they just use a different way to accomplish the same goal. Get on with your diy stuff though. Make sure you got a spare car in case you get stuck. Happens to the best of us, don't feel bad about it.

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    And floating axles so you don't have to take the tires off. And the hubs would have seals instead of gaskets or RTV.

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >And why is only one differential always the dropout instead of both?

    Dropouts or rear loaders they are called in my country seem popular with American vehicles and independent suspension SUV's

    SFA Toyotas, SWB defenders, first gen Vitaras, Suzuki Jimny's, 4x4 and 6x6 Hinos, 4x4 and 6x6 Isuzus I had noticed were 3rd member all around.

    I need to check under the newer pickups to see if their front diffs are third member.

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Ford 8.8" IRS diff case.
    Not quite the same as pulling a 9" pumpkin at the track, but honestly not that different either.

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