10 liters of water contains about 1 kg of hydrogen, which will allow you to drive about 100km in a car with fuel cell. And the only emission is water again.
Commercial electrolysers for home use that produce 1kg - 2kg of pure hydrogen per day have existed for years.
Power it with a wind turbine and you get it for free.
A windfarm on the fields could produce enough fuel for your town.
Why aren't people protesting for this stuff?
Storage isn't a problem either, since it can be stored safely in solid form at ambient pressure as magnesium hydride.
>with fuel cell
How do cells react to sudden jolts of Electricity? They short-out.
Carrington Event cripples any 'Cells' we can come up with.
cars with fuel cells have successfully been operating for decades
>Carrington Event
Havent had one of those in decades either you dumb pollack
Yeah and if it happens you are fricked either way so who the frick cares
>you are fricked
My 1939 Studebaker Champion doesnt give two shits about it, moron.
you would be fricked anyway, a CME would destroy every cars onboard computer.
without the computers these cars dont work at all.
Yeah that's what I'm talking about
If the event happens and the whole electricity grid is fricked, some damaged fuel cells will be your smallest concern
>and the whole electricity grid is fricked
not necessarily. CMEs can be detected long before they hit and they got plenty of time to turn the entire grid off and utilize all kinds of other protective measures.
the cars are a much bigger problem because that kills all kinds of Logistics and mobility.
The catalysts are really, really expensive.
Hydrogen mixed with methane in a turbine or ICE engine with an electric drivetrain makes more sense.
i want a turbine hybrid electric. put anything mostly flammable in it. car go vroom.
it's actually even worse than that. thats just the power saved to the end consumer. idk how to calculate all the power wasted when windows is doing stupid shit online spinning up servers across the globe to check for another update you didn't want.
>Polish moron pours water in his gastank
>engine wont start
Hurrrrr durrrrrrr
Those toilets arent going to scrub themselves
>we need MORE cars and MORE driving and MORE drivers
No. The personal automobile should be made as expensive as possible and as much of a hassle as possible.
You already had the perfect eco-friendly inexpensive quiet low-pollution self-replicating self-healing transport, it was called horses and you rejected it.
bicycles are easier to handle than horses
Yeah let’s go back to the dark ages. Why the frick not just voluntarily take a downgrade of one of the most crucial parts of our lives for the sake of some sky-is-falling fairy tale bullshit.
You people need to be gassed.
>let's go back to the dark ages
Horses were in common use until the early 1900s in most of the (now) developed world.
Your ancestors rode proudly across the British landscapes and felt the wind in their hair, you sit in traffic and breathe brake dust.
cars are kind of overrated, unless you really need to drive to your job 100 miles everday or something
you don't know how to ride a horse. back in the car with you.
>horses instead of cars
Maybe this is why all the jeets are being brought in. Literal shit eaters. Teach them to shit in toilets and they go around eating up all the horse shit and relocating it in the toilets. Easy clean up. And they do it for free.
tell me you've never heard about the great horse manure crisis of 1894 without telling me you've never heard about the great horse manure crisis of 1894
Hey why don't you shut the frick up, and just build one yourself? Nobody cares about your homosexual car fuel.
If you were in America right now I would hunt you down in my F150 and drive it straight up your ass.
we are getting close. basically it makes sense to have all electric vehicles with onboard batteries if you have site fuel cells because of better opportunities for heat pump recovery in stationary applications.
>we are getting close
the technology has existed for years
Not exactly true. You need a reversible fuel cell that cycles for 30 years, engineered for grid scale deployment. The system has to be more efficient, or else it wont receive necessary private sector investment. The necessary systems exist at lab scale, backed by lab budgets and built lab engineers. Energy transition of the entire economy would be a fun project to work on.
nah, the tech is more than ready, but it requires public participation which is what the israelites don't want, they want everything to be private, the want all profits to be only theirs, me, me, me, me!
that's the problem with dirty American israelites like you, is all about you, frick you i got mine, muh private equity, muh quarter earnings, muh company growth, muh russel 5000, me, me, me, me!
nuke America from lower orbit
Most of it has existed for 100 years. Water powered vehicles going on 4 decades.
It's ridiculous how much has been hidden to maintain the petrodollar and the power of the israeli ruling class.
No one gives a frick though and the moment you create anything that utilizes zero point energy, your lab gets raided and you get suicided.
>basically it makes sense to have all electric vehicles
no it doesn't, it never has and it never will, frick off elon, stop shilling your stupid gadgets and stop depleting the earth of lithium, those lithium cells could be use on something way more efficient than your stupid joy rides
Do it gay
>be me
>hydrogen cell car
>get into a head on collision
>fuel cells explode, killing everyone in a 1km radius
Pretty much the only reason we don't use them
We'll just have the white people all work from home for the first week
In canada they'd be considered WMDs and be illegal to own. Wouldn't want someone driving their mobile bomb into government facilities
Probably why certain tech is kept from the public, weaponisation, been a plot device for ages
BC is deploying hydrogen fueling for OTR trucking as we speak.
https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2023EMLI0064-001800
Eugenics will kick in. Only cautious drivers will survive to replicate their genes. It's win-win.
This
thankfully car accidents occur in a vacuum where no bystanders ever wander into and everyone knows collateral from explosions and fires is always minimal
one of my life lemmas is:
>If it can be abused, then it will be abused
Pressurized cannister of flammable gas in a fragile metal box moving at high speed and operated by barely-sentient Black folk?
What could possibly go wrong?
>Vehicle stops
>nigwalk to engine
>Wut dat be?
>Jabs hydrogen cell with pointy stick in an effort to "fix" it
>picrel
LPG cars have existed for years and they are pretty safe.
My statement goes to the left-side-of-the-bell-curve people - the Seasoning Americans and their ilk - abusing things. Not the inherent dangerousness of the technology - though anything new will have teething problems until it is refined
Remember when air bags were a new thing? Always a few people being killed every year by them going off until they figured things out and refined them
that's not how it works
So do it if it's so easy
i'm a poor gay
here's an overview of available electrolysers from nrel.gov
the hogen 20
not bigger than a laundry machine
You also need a 300bar compressor.
> it can be stored safely in solid form at ambient pressure as magnesium hydride.
Magnesium hydride is heavy.
>You also need a 300bar compressor.
wrong
>Magnesium hydride is heavy.
also wrong
So you need 10kg of powerpaste to drive 100km
How is this better than needing 5kg of fuel?
you can make it yourself
it's clean and can be recycled into new fuel
But you need twice the capacity for your energy source, maybe a bit less by volume but still
What happens to the paste?
the paste turns into a sludge of magnesium hydroxide that can be collected and recycled
Instead of just refueling it you have to also somehow dump the used up paste, collect it, bring it somewhere where they recycle it and buy new one? Not really convenient or efficient
refueling and pumping out the sludge can happen at the same time
i'm sure german engineers can come up with solutions
the fraunhofer institute who developed a paste now have to develop their own car that uses swappable cartridges
>i'm sure german engineers can come up with solutions
I already created in my head a whole process of safe refueling and disposing of the paste with the mechanisms in each step to make it as easy and convenient as possible
But I know literally nothing about the topic lmao
you can use it also for other vehicles like scooters or ebikes
an ebike using powerpaste would have 10 times the range of an li-ion powered bike
I remember reading about fuel cell powered small portable electronic devices 20 years ago but then it died
the jetsone one manned drone has a flight time of 30 minutes with li-ion batteries
with hydrogen fuel cell you could fly it for hours
If this is so simple, what's preventing someone smart to build one and start selling it locally?
>t. moron
Big oil calls in a hit
Ever heard of stanly meyers?
How are you going to make those wind turbines without coal, natural gas, and oil?
we could also use slaves to power generators
big oil could serve a purpose after all
Thats not a answer to my question, can you answer how they will build power generation equipment without using fossil fuels?
i'm not saying we have to can fossil fuels for power generation, but you could reduce the toxic emissions on the roads to zero
have you ever been to a city that causes asthma because of the smog?
Everything is comprimise, the good we have a massive population, bad that population is dependant on diesel engines moving our shit around and burning anything to boil water to spin magnets, so be alive with asthma or not
It's called Nuclear Power Generation.
You have No idea the extent of how much our modern comforts are dependent on fossil fuel is. Look how the active ingredient in concrete is made, how iron ore is made into steel, plastics, ceramics refrigeration, fertiliser, farming
Numbers I've seen from actual working models, like the Toyota Mirage, give ~30km per 1 kg of H2, which means problems for the volume you have to carry around. Basically, those numbers will leave you better off with current electric batteries in terms of storage space required.
Models that run on liquid nitrogen (BMW Hydrogen 7), of course get far better energy density, and solve that problem, at the cost of having to start venting the fuel after 17 hours once it gets too warm, and the tank's pressure increases too much.
Basically, people are working on it, but H2 powered cars will likely come with some sacrifice of the convenience that petrol's energy density gives us.
the Mercedes F-cell could do that range but it was canned because "there is no market for it"
or the BMW iX5
ok I'll look at those. Curious what they did to achieve that.
You are aware you need a catalytic reaction with rare earth metals to make electricity with the hydrogen right? Which will need replacing how often exactly, and to what cost?
The only thing that makes sense is to have a hydrogen gatherer/producer with catalytic converter at home or solar cell on the roof, that charges a normal car battery in your car.
what rare earth metal are you talking about for what kind of fuel cell?
to convert hydrogen to electricity in any car.
The Germans have this power paste compound that releases hydrogen on demand. Solves most of the density and storage problem.
https://www.ifam.fraunhofer.de/en/Aboutus/Locations/Dresden/HydrogenTechnology/powerpaste.html
Go buy a Mirai dealerships can't get rid of them fast enough.
people would buy it if there was an infrastructure so they could use it, why do you think this infrastructure doesn't exist?
I was going to say the price for the car is way to high and the cost of driving 100km on hydrogen is way to high...
But after looking deeper it's actually not that bad wtf
Would consider it if I had 60k€ for a car, but I don't
Wow, oxygen must be massive for that to work.
When you release hydrogen from oxygen, the oxygen escapes into the atmosphere.
This seems beneficial at first, but higher oxygen levels allows for larger people and animals.
Larger people will need bigger cars. Bigger cars will need bigger roads.
Higher oxygen flow to the brain creates more vivid thoughts. People will become over cerebral, depressed, and ultimately suicidal.
Over-oxidization will also become a problem.
We actually already realized all of these things, which is why it's a dead avenue in terms of research.
It's much safer to drive a gas car. It releases co2 which is good for plants and has a calming effect when breathed in.
Better to be safe than sorry.
Thanks big oil, appreciate your caring
Anytime, friend.
Also remember that anything that oxidizes can be used in the manufacture of explosives. Anyone who wants to release oxygen from water is probably planning a terrorist event, and should be reported to your local authorities, who will inform us. We know how to deal with this.
Canadian big oil gave me lots of work, thanks, built 4 high pressure package boilers to cook the oil up and out of the sands
Oil is EVERY mans friend. Did you know that six million people drown annually in water? Did you know that hurricanes are made out of water, and cause property damage? Water is also used in nuclear power plants.
>10 liters of water contains about 1 kg of hydrogen
...bound to oxygen in a lower energy state than H2
you need H2, with it's higher potential energy to power the car
sure, you can convert it, but it will cost more energy to get than you can get out of it
it's the same shitty problem as electric cars - both are a means of energy storage and energy delivery, but neither offer a net energy production solution. Sure you could increase solar fields and windmills and nuclear power plants, but until then, it's only part of the solution. A big chunk of hydrogen fuel is produced with coal energy still.
I wonder how many people driving electric cars today understand this.
The goal was never to produce more energy out of hydrogen than you put in
Just storage and use as mobile fuel
The energy to create the h2 could be nuclear
>COULD if we weren't tards who abandoned it
>Why aren't people protesting for this stuff?
MUH Black personBALL!
It sounds interesting.
I talked briefly with someone who has a bunch of hydrogen fuel cell patents and he said the technology isn't quite there yet.
It's also one of those things that will be stupid expensive and inconvenient until a certain adoption percentage is achieved
the technology has been used in space shuttles and has become stupidly efficient with capillary fuel cells recently
>will be stupid expensive and inconvenient
Yeah thought this while entering the thread
Turns out driving 100km on hydrogen costs the same as driving 100km on petrol, right now
you can have it for free if you generate your own power and produce your own fuel
I think the bottom line with hydrogen is we need nuclear powerplants to make the fuel dirt cheap.
You're already sacrificing the density of gasoline so you can't make it worse with less dense energy generation solutions like wind and solar.
>I think the bottom line with hydrogen is we need nuclear powerplants to make the fuel dirt cheap.
Seems like it
But I don't think you can pressurize it to 700bar at home, to fuel your car with it
And like you posted above, the cars running on the paste are not yet here
cars use fuels cells, whether they are using compressed hydrogen or powerpaste
So is there a way I can turn the used up paste into usable paste AT HOME?
because right now there seems to be
>refuel at station with pressurized hydrogen
>use paste (buy it somewhere?)
>create h2 at home but what can you really do with it?
You created the hydrogen at home, whats the next step?
you could with the right machine but it would be more efficient to collect it and deliver it to a dedicated recycling plant
to bind hydrogen to magnesium you need something similar to a thermomix
Protest for it? Just make a market demand for it. You can just create demand on social media even if it's just hype to see 1 million followers saying yes we prefer this. Protest. Smelly yellers. Nah
but the market isn't free and products they don't want the public to have get silenced
people have no idea about hydrogen fuel cells as this thread shows
Another thought I have is lithium batteries are going to become solid state over the next few years.
Those are much more dense than the electrolyte solution 18650s or whatever
>10 liters of water contains about 1 kg of hydrogen, which will allow you to drive about 100km in a car with fuel cell.
>Power it with a wind turbine and you get it for free.
Reminds me of lindsey lohan.
Waiting on a windmill powered passenger jet
i'm talking about your electrolyser that you have at home to make the hydrogen
It isn't going to matter anyway anon
Was listening to a round table of some fairly plugged in people
Look for some kind of big "revelation" to be announced this year
Some kind of ground-breaking tech
Likely a power source
Because of the AI they're pushing - such a thing requires stupid amounts of power - more power than some countries produce
And they cannot hide that - so, if they want the AI, then they have to release the power source
Everything is pointing towards some big "reveal" this year - our guess is it's power
Which will make things... interesting.
one single minor change pushed out worldwide to windows computers would gain back the power output of a medium sized country.
windows is that wasteful just by being stupid. times billions of machines.
just changing a 1 to a 0. thats it. millions of kilowatt hours.
>Another reason to hate Bill Gates
Appreciated, but I don't need another reason to hate him
Thanks tho
What I mean when I say "interesting" is..
Right now, we are beholden to others
Fellating a bunch of greasy Bedouins and other shitbags for petroleum
All they have is sand and petroleum - they have not diversified into any other industries
It's ALL they do.
If a power source were revealed that made their petroleum reserves obsolete
Well... they would have hundreds of thousands of disgruntled military aged males who are out of work, no options - no Plan B because they don't have anything else - and looking for someone to blame
Things going to get interesting, for sure...
morons without an engineering degree think that renewable means free.
It's the exact opposite, renewable means expensive. And every thing you propose to solve the OTHER already abundant problems renewable energy has only makes it even more expensive.
Engineering is about finding the simplest solution possible. You add all that bulk and you create problems bigger than the one you are solving. It loses it's purpose.
Wind, isn't free, it needs more work put in than the one you get out if you compare it to other alternatives. Otherwise we'd all be using it. Not only that, the efficiency is trash.
You could power the electrolysis with literally anything. Why not just biodiesel.
OH WELL JUST MAKE ALGAE FARMS AND PROCESS IT TO MAKE BIODIESEL AND MAKE HYDROGEN WITH IT.
why not just use the biodiesel?
why not just power electric cars with the wind energy?
why not just use animals?
Every problem has it's solution, engineering has to find the simplest one. The most effective and efficient one, or fastest one (because fast is cheap).
And using wind to power a synthetic hydrogen plant, to power fuel cells to power cars, is not simple, efficient or fast.
you make it sound super complex when it's really simple and grants independence from oil conglomerates
>Engineering is about finding the simplest solution possible
I asked my first instructor - a PE - if designed obsolescence existed.
He paused for almost 5 minutes and stared at me.
Eventually, he said "Not as a formal policy"
Any fool can make something strong - that's easy
Engineering is making something strong *enough* - and elegant
Making one thing that performs 5 functions instead of 5 things that perform 1 function each
He was a good guy, but he also famously said
>"Lots of guys get into Engineering to build some huge bridge or grand structure. The goal of Engineering is to make it to retirement without being personally responsible for a major catastrophe."
I have come back to that statement many times
I cannot find the lie
Proably a good idea.
Yeah hey tell us all about how you drove your windmill powered car on the A8
inefficient. you’re adding an extra step on top of charging an electric car.
Faster than charging
Can fit more hydrogen than batteries into a car
Cant wait to see hydrogen cars explode when nogs get pitted into the guardrail
Your mom's pussy contains about 10 gallons of my semen.
>WOW THIS IS SO EASY
>JUST DO THIS *proceeds to act like industrializing an already complex process is easy*
>AND THIS *proceeds to explain how we should power this process with an inefficient AND already logistically complex process when literally any other makes more sense*
>AND THEN WE JUST STORE IT IN A moronic WAY BECAUSE I AM AFRAID OF EXPLOSIONS AND I DON'T LIKE GASES
you are a midwit, the prime example why if you want to talk about something you educate yourself first
'Ats anuff ta make a bom init
The future of the white race depends on turning bottled water into nukes
>10L of water contains 1kg of hidrogen
Bastard never used P.V=n RT
I hate those fricking morons that run this place
Don't you need energy to get the hydrogen from water which costs more energy than what the hydrogen will give?