>bought my first stick shift
>lurching and stalling on the drive home
>drive home was flat, but I'll need to deal with hills
Most of the issue is going from first to second I rev the engine way too much before I let out the clutch, even slightly powershifting it a few times.
I can clutchless shift my bike up and down gears, so I'm not a total noob, but holy frick everything is backwards in terms of hands and feet.
Are there any tricks? When does it get better? I know all the theory, letting the revs fall to upshift, blipping the downshift, it just all goes out the window when I try to drive it.
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Upshifting delay depends on the rev hang. Something like the new WRX has so little rev hang you can just shift quickly and drop the clutch on most upshifts.
You'll get there. Try not to switch your shoes around too much. Practice slow inputs that lead to smooth changes and build speed later. Be sensitive and learn what makes the car happy.
The mantra is: slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
>The mantra is: slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
Great to reiterate this. Thanks for the tips anon.
>WRX has so little rev hang you can just shift quickly and drop the clutch on most upshifts
Good to know. It's like a muscle memory/mental thing that I try to get on the gas as quickly as possible, but I was jumping the gun by a lot.
Ok I'll try to pay attention to the tachometer a bit. Tbh there was so much going on I hardly looked at it, it was sort of hard to tell just by engine feel/noise (but I'm sure I'll get there eventually)
practice launching and practice the basics before moving on to Rev matching and other "advanced" techniques. find yourself an abandoned road, a neighborhood with a lot of stop signs, an empty parking lot, somewhere where you can spend a couple hours starting and stopping without getting in people's way. I recommend learning in this order, and make sure you come to a complete stop every time, no California rolls:
1) clutch only launching, learning to feel out the bite point and the range of it from traffic creeping to as fast as the engine can handle without stalling is absolutely critical, you should be able to go right to the bite point and exactly where you want to within the bite range at any given point repeatedly and immediately without thinking
2) launching SLOWLY with some gas, learn the minimal appropriate throttle input to get you going
3) launching QUICKLY with gas without wheel spin and over revving, You're going to want to be fast to be able to launch on a hill without rolling too much so the faster the better
4) 1 to 2 shift slow, after the shift use the clutch bite point to speed the engine back up after the revs fall before fully releasing the clutch and completing the shift
5) 1 to 2 shift fast, learn the rev hang duration and rpm fall speed so you'll be able to time when to quickly release the clutch and complete the shift smoothly, keep going at different speeds and RPMs until you can do with little to no jerk every time
you won't be able to master all this in a day, but these five basics will be the building blocks to everything else you can do in the car from Rev matching to skip shifting to second gear starting. as said, slow is smooth, smooth is fast so don't get overzealous and try to do everything as fast as possible right away, do it slowly at first and work your way up to doing it at normal traffic speeds and beyond.
Figure out the difference between 1st and 2nd gear and then just rev match your shifts. Usually 2nd gear is almost twice as long as 1st gear. So e.g. you shift up at 2500rpm, lets say that would put you at 1500rpm in 2nd gear. Just time your clutch release with the rpms hitting 1500rpm (or whatever) and in one quick, smooth motion release the clutch as you get on the gas again.
This differs per car. On some cars you really need to pay attention to shift smoothly. E.g. the rpms might drop exceptionally fast or slow. On others the rpm drops at such a speed that everything just falls into place in one swift motion.
On a WRX, you shouldn't ever upshift from 1st before 4000 rpm cause the turbo doesnt spool below 2000 rpms
Will that make the shifting easier, or you just mean for driving fast?
I've been driving very gently, but I ain't fraid of any rev limiter
I just really really don't want to roll back into somebody. It supposedly has some hill assist but it won't hold the car indefinitely and I don't trust that either.
Of course on the long term I'm disabling that shit when I get gud.
>I just really really don't want to roll back into somebody.
idk how it is in your country, but if they were sitting that close behind your car anyway it's likely their fault.
just slowly bring the clutch up high, and depress the accellerator to get the revs up high too.
>It supposedly has some hill assist
yeah I rented a Nissan Juke this weekend which supposedly has hill assist it still tried to roll back a couple of times while hill-starting. just do the technique above and you'll be fine. if it helps, try to find a secluded area with elevation and practice there.
but for real - time is your friend. stalling will become a distant memory.
Thanks for the encouragement anon.
>idk how it is in your country, but if they were sitting that close behind your car anyway it's likely their fault.
Yeah I would hope so if they were right on my ass (though might be hard to prove one way or the other). Knowing how slow I get going on flat and finding the bite point I could probably roll back quite a bit, but yeah just launch it works in that situation. At least I won't wheelie over backwards if I overdo it.
Actually the hill assist will cause stalls even on flat ground if you drive normally. I had to disable it.
moronic advice. For starters, shifting smoothly is much easier at lower rpms. Secondly, who the fricks takes their engine to 4k rpm for every shift in normal traffic?
Have you driven a WRX? I just explained the turbo doesnt spool below 2k RPM there is no power at all till it spools up. Yes I had it up to 5000 rpms in 1st gear around town cause it wont accelerate at low rpms.
You're commuting, not racing. Ricelet homosexual. You probably had to rev it to 5k rpm to haul your 400 pound ass around.
The wrx sucks as a commuter cause no power till the turbo spools up, it sucks as a race car cause its heavy and underpowered, and it sucks off pavement cause its low and has stiff suspension.
The only reason to buy it is for driving like an butthole in all weather
I had an STi for 6 years, currently drive a non-turbo Impreza. The turbo doesn't factor in to how smooth your shifts are.
Subarus have real AWD, so the tires can't spin and the transmission takes drivetrain shock damage. As a result of this and Subaru being a relatively small company, their transmissions are clunky and clutches heavy to mitigate this damage.
You can shift them smoothly like any other car though I don't see what you're on about.
They shift fine at low rpms, but theres no power unless the turbo is spooling. The subject isnt ease of shifting, its the fact that you shouldn't shift before theres power available in the next gear. Did you get the ECU reprogrammed to boost at 1200 rpms or are you moronic?
Sounds like you’re an idiot. We’re talking about smooth 1-2 shifts and you’re talking about whether you have power in the next gear for drag racing I assume. Makes no sense in this context, I have no idea what you’re on about.
Smoothly shifting and then lugging is moronic. You're moronic. If you're racing you shift near the redline. If your driving around you always need some power available. Lugging turbo engines is stupid.
Absolutely no one thinks you are cool for redlining in the suburbs.
>i can't read
No one thinks you're cool for not being able to read, and not knowing how subarus work.
>Secondly, who the fricks takes their engine to 4k rpm for every shift in normal traffic?
Me
t. slow car haver
>who the fricks takes their engine to 4k rpm for every shift in normal traffic?
I've done this in every car I've ever owned including a WRX. Like the other guy is saying it's the only way to have any power after you finish upshifting.
t. 4 cylinder enjoyer
Me driving my 2001 4 cylingder gasoline powered rav4 up the 35% inclination asphalt road up the mountain in 2nd gear on the automatic
shoulda bought a V8
>When does it get better?
with time
Learn how to rev match now. When you downshift, blip the gas while the clutch is still pressed in, and then let the clutch out so it grabs the engine at the correct RPMS for the gear. You'll get the feel of it after a few days.
Eventually. For now I've been slow releasing the clutch or even popping it into neutral and braking like a noob.
These are great, especially 4 and 5 I hadn't really thought of the timing like that, I'll try to get a feel for the rev fall.
Bro learn to downshift or you'll learn bad habits. Never shift below 2nd. Personally I never really even shift from third when coming to a stop. I clutch in before the engine bogs, put it in neutral, brake to a stop, clutch in, throw it in first and take off.
to say you'll learn bad habits from clutch dragging before Rev matching is stupid since one technique overrides the other during operation. it's like saying learning to walk before running will teach you bad habits. it's not particularly difficult to learn and do, but it's an unnecessary thing to think about and distract you while trying to figure out the dance that is driving a manual. learn the basics first, and then once you can do them repeatedly and competently (which honestly should take no more than like two or three days) then you can start mixing it up.
Op here. Do new cars still grind the gears with that godawful sound? Somehow it never happened, or it wasn't noticeable, during my drive home even though I know I sometimes mistimed things.
Maybe because I only went from gear to neutral without fully disengaging the clutch? As opposed to neutral to gear which would grind.
Yeah I know it's a bad habit, but I was pretty much in survival mode just trying to get home.
maybe a tiny little bit even on a new box only because the gear teeth may not be perfectly aligned even after the synchros synchronize them, a couple clicks are not a big deal unless it sounds like the stereotypical rendition of someone that can't drive a manual like in a cartoon with it crunching and grinding excessively, in which case there's something wrong internally or you let off the clutch too early after the synchros synchronized but before the gear was fully engaged.
Ok that's good I guess. Whatever I was doing the car would buck like crazy trying to accelerate from neutral -> 1 -> 2 but no grinding. I think I was inadvertently powershifting.
what car? if it has a dual mas flywheel it can jerk like crazy when stabbing the gas in low gear or almost stalling or dumping the clutch at a high rpm differential (between what the ratio will make it at a given speed vs the actual rpm) because there is so much spring and inertia in the drivetrain (both the clutch and flywheel with a dmf)
2023 wrx
hmm ok. I probably rev bombed with clutch in and then overcompensated by letting revs drop too much
Accelerate in 1st clutch in, 1-2 shift. Rev hang means it takes a while for rpms to drop, so just let that happen while you shift. release clutch and give gas at same time. Smooth upshift most of the time.
since its a turbo, its harder to pull off a smooth upshift at low rpm
jewgle says no dmf on your car just a standard single mass flywheel and sprung clutch. not that it makes a difference for you one way or the other, but just btw.
I did it back in the day, 2014 Genesis coupe brand new off the back lot, still had the shipping plastic I peeled off myself. granted I had a tiny bit of practice with friends cars beforehand, but i still had near 0 experience and it was still a struggle to get it home and then self teach but within a week I had it probably 90% down pat and in a month I could drive it nearly asleep, which I did more than once...
Power shifting is smooth. Bucking and jerking happens from dumping the clutch at wrong RPM without giving it gas
>Never shift below 2nd.
>throw it in first
You'll get it after a week
practice in a parking lot, holy shit.
Learning to drive stick on a brand new car with a turbo is wild.
yolo, for real though I wish I'd had the ability to practice more beforehand
Thanks anons
I had the tiniest bit of practice too. More than 10 years ago a couple small trips on a porsche 944. Basically just enough confidence that I could survive it, but yeah it wasn't pretty (neither 10 years ago nor now).
Eventually this shit will be second nature bro. You won't even think about it. It's like riding a bike. It'll stick with you forever
This.
Don't get discouraged, OP. Practice good habits, be sensitive to the feedback the car is giving you and by 15k miles you'll be a hot shit.
Its complicated because it's dependent on two independent factors: The gears you're shifting to and from, and the current RPM in the gear you're shifting away from.
I think manual is off-putting to most people not only for because you have to learn how to coordinate all four of your limbs at once but also the fact that there are very few if then else rules with driving a stick since it is all extremely specific and situational to exactly what you want to happen, is actually happening, and the current state/disposition of the vehicle.
case in point; years ago I was teaching my niece how to drive stick and Even after giving her a crash course in theory and then taking her out for a spin and coaching her she would ask questions like "when do I shift", "what gear should I be in", when do I lit off the clutch", etc, to which all I could really say is it's situational. here is the general rule of thumb but that's just a guideline and not the end all be all, to do exactly what needs to happen depends entirely on exactly what is currently happening and what you want to happen. she was eventually able to work it out and get good at it, but it definitely made it more difficult for her to grasp the concept and get there.
stop over thinking and start doing anon.
Op here, once again I appreciate all the encouragement and tips. You've given me a lot to think about and different perspectives. I went out yesterday and it all felt much better.
>practiced clutch only starts
>practiced hill starts
>met car fren neighbor
Yep
Great point about the gas, for going up just focusing on the shift and not gassing it seemed to help alot.
>You just have to practice and seek the smoothest shifts.
Absolutely and I can't wait until I can do a split second downshift revving it all up but with no jerk.
kek it makes sense though once you're rolling, though on my bike I still go into first just for funs. I'm sure once I actually have "fun" shifting my wrx I'll do the same thing on that.
it really does become second nature after a while.
my only advice that I haven't seen here is don't be afraid to just hold in the clutch when braking, and as you get to your desired speed shift into the corresponding gear. it'll give you options when reacting to the road ahead of you.
e.g: coming down from 30 to a stop, slow the car down, clutch as you start to reach stall speed - if the stoppage is cleared by the time you reach it, you can go straight into 2nd or 3rd depending on the speed and chug along nicely.
if you do need to stop, depending on how long you expect to wait, while coming to a stop you can either bring it back into neutral and release the clutch, or keep the clutch in while in 1st.
only thing with a clutch is take care not to coast, i.e. pushing the clutch in and not doing anything with the pedals or the gearstick. you have less control of the car due to no engine breaking, so make sure you only clutch when you're intending to change gear or slowing down/stopped
Wake up at 4 AM on Sunday morning and drive.
Stop holding the accelerator down if your revs are too high? You are probably accelerating while the car is in neutral. Take it easy, buddy.
Go into first, rev up until it's about time to shift... Now listen closely... Left foot in, clutch in. Right foot off, gas off. Let revs drop a bit. Shift gears, release clutch. Give it gas whenever you feel like. You're probably too nervous. Revs will naturally drop as you put it into the next gear, shouldn't be an issue.
>Take it easy, buddy.
This. Manual is super easy. Just let off the clutch to go. Everyone else I've seen drive manual in the last decade uses way too much throttle and they buck and bounce. It's about finding the smoothness, and it's ridiculously-easy when you find it. It becomes a muscle memory thing, you just lift off the clutch and go.
1-2 is tricky, and it depends on the car. You just have to practice and seek the smoothest shifts.
also, just concerning the hill starts, just think of it as having two bite points on your clutch pedal instead of one. this is best demonstrated if you stop on a flat surface and pull up your handbrake, then clutch in and shift into 1st.
slowly releasing your clutch, you'll notice the car starts to sound a little bit different - this is the first bite point, and it's what you'll want when you're pulling away on a level surface. if you release your handbrake now, you'll slowly start to creep forward. this, in combination with getting revs around 1500-2000, is your standard pull-away.
next time, repeat this, so complete stop, handbrake up, clutch all the way in, 1st gear.
slowly release the clutch again, until you get to your bite point, then release it just a little bit more. you'll notice the front of the car start to rise up a little bit, like the car's getting ready to launch. the sound will also be different from the other bite point. this is the bite point you'll want to use for hill starts - revs to 1500-2000 RPM, handbreak down, and you'll go straight forwards without any rollbacks every time.
Automatic drivers have the completely wrong reaction when learning to operate the clutch pedal. There's an instinct they get that causes them to drop the clutch when the engine bogs at a standstill, which immediately stalls the car. It takes time to unlearn this.
You gotta partillay hold down the clutch in first, so you can immediately shift into second once you hit some 20 kmph/12-13mph (assuming a flat road). Don't look at RPM, but listen to engine sound and look at your speed. After shifting, slowly accelerate up until you hit a acceptable rev range for 2nd gear (depends on the car, but I'd say 1600-1800 RPM for most cars) and accelerate more from there. Manual transmissions runs best when operated smoothly, as you'll have experiemced with your gearbox punching you in the face when not operated smoothly.
Just let go of the throttle fully, press the clutch and change gear, smoothly release clutch pedal and press accelerator.
>When does it get better
As you keep driving it, just like anything else
I'm a little slow, may be different for you. I've been driving manual cars for 6 of my 10 year driving history and just recently feel as though i perfected it.
Driving and feeling comfortable with it is easy though
The only tip i can give is to use the clutch more and not try to predict what rev at what speed at what gear.
Not OP but how the frick do you drive manual with boots in the winter
it sucks but you just do. It helps if you know your car
If your driving an old pickup, there's usually more operating room down there, so not a big deal. Never had an issue in my Subaru, isuzu or Hyundai either. How big are your shoes and what kinda clown car do you drive anyway?
I drive in boots year round. Heel-toe can be tricky since the sole isn't flexible but otherwise it's nbd. My old shit box focus was a little tricky because the pedal box was on the small side, but my bummer and all my trucks have enough space to not be an issue.
I forgot that mutts can somehow do their driving test in an automatic and yet somehow are then legally allowed to drive manuals on the open road. Thats the mutt system for you.
Yeah you'll absolutely destroy your first clutch n00b, but that's about it
omg its insane how many completely fricking moronic human beings are on this website holy fricking shit this entire thread and every post has to be ai generated theres just no fricking god damn way
Posting here because I don't see any other fitting threads: what is it called when you're driving (not just starting) and you half-press your clutch and also press the gas pedal so that the engine spins loudly and the car gets a speed boost? I assume it's very damaging to the car but it's fun to do.
Sounds like a less extreme version of a clutch kick, a technique drifters use to break the rear tires loose and initiate a slide.
You'll end up frying your clutch pretty quick.
Right, as someone who also just got his first manual a month ago (TELL US YOUR CAR DAMN IT) I would tell you that you have to let the clutch out smooth when changing gears. Don't drop the clutch, just ease it and the transitions would be much smoother. Also yes the gearing between first and 2nd is much more agressive than 2 to 3, 3 to 4, ect... So you'd have to especially be smooth on that 1st gear to 2nd gear transition. Let it slow a touch more and let it go through the catch point before letting the clutch fully off.