Has anyone here driven/owned a convertible? Specifically Porsche's, I really want a convertible but not sure about how the roof holds up at high speeds, high winds, rain, hail, etc.
Has anyone here driven/owned a convertible? Specifically Porsche's, I really want a convertible but not sure about how the roof holds up at high speeds, high winds, rain, hail, etc.
Only drawback is the top provides less sound insulation than a hard top when up.
>Only drawback is the top provides less sound insulation than a hard top when up.
Yea I figure that but I think that adds to the experience somewhat, maybe it would get annoying at some point. But frick regular Porsche's don't do it for me but a convertible just... does.
Is that yours? If so has the top been a problem repair wise?
Yes, that's mine. 10/10, would recommend. Drove up the coast from LA to Big Sur to Carmel to Napa last year, wish I could do that every year.
I've never had a problem with the top. The only thing about it is it has some rub marks on it from folding/unfolding but it isn't *that* big of a deal. I drive it top down most of the time anyway. Top up is for bad weather and freeways only, pretty much. Just maintain it with RaggTopp regularly and use a car cover to keep it from fading over time. Same thing with the leather interior, use a leather conditioner regularly and make sure it has UV protectant in it. Keep up on your maintenance. If you're good to your car, it will be good to you back. Find a reputable independent Porsche mechanic and make absolutely sure to get a PPI done on any car you're serious about, and don't be afraid to walk away from one that doesn't pass PPI. Porsches aren't generally super expensive to fix, but they're far from cheap.
>Yes, that's mine. 10/10, would recommend. Drove up the coast from LA to Big Sur to Carmel to Napa last year, wish I could do that every year.
That sounds comfy as frick.
>Keep up on your maintenance.
Of course I would rather spend a $100 on preventative maintenance every now and then rather than pay thousands for neglect.
>$100 on preventative maintenance
Triple that and you're in the ballpark. Although I'm generally not afraid to DIY a lot of stuff, I do like to take it in and have a pro do a complete service on it at least once a year, and I think the least I've ever spent on that is $390. FWIW.
meant for the roof and the seats for the products to care for them, yea obviously more for fluids, brakes, etc. either way I am a big believer in preventive care.
t. I daily an RX7
Sounds like you know what you're doing. I recommend the Carrera S, 997.2. Manual if you want but the PDK is pretty fun.
Yea I was thinking the Carrera S personally definitely a manual, I might rent one for a few days and see if I really like it before pulling the trigger.
>Has anyone here driven/owned a convertible? Specifically Porsche
Yea, it holds up fine. The real question is do you want to give up the classic 911 lines for the convertible.
Just go test drive one at the dealer, even if it's newer than you're looking for. It sounds like you think it's hard to get a test drive, but it's not. Hell, I've just had an invite from the dealer to test drive new Bentleys, a car I have no plan to buy lol.
How's the gearing on that?
>Yea I figure that but I think that adds to the experience somewhat,
Nope. The noise it lets in is primarily wind noise, which is universally considered undesirable. It's only a little bit easier to hear intake and exhaust noise with a soft top than a hard top with sound insulation.
T. S2000 owner.
It does have less sound insulation, but like you said, it adds to the experience, it's one of the reasons you get a cabriolet.
Kino
Not a Porsche but my only car is a Miata. 10/10 would recommend if you don't have a long 70+mph commute. It is perfectly fine under 60 but gets exponentially louder with speed past that. I'm sure Porsche convertibles are much quieter anyways.
Road noise and every convertible leaks at some point.
Of course but thats part of the experience.
oh noes a few drops of water got past a seal guess I hate convertibles now
Buy a replacement top if you're keeping the vehicle because they age badly and by then if one is available it's either a shit reproduction or horribly expensive.
Knowing it's German I bet there's a channel for that water to flow directly on to a $5k computer or directly into the engine.
>W220 war flashbacks
Fricking B5 Passat/Audis with their ECU compartments right next to the cowl drains so if those get clogged all the electronics immediately go to shit
You can reseal a soft top. The road noise issue is very real however, my NC is quite loud when I go over 60mph.
That's why you get a hardtop convertible
I am terrified of birds pooping on the interior or on my hair. How do convertible owners get past this fear? Not memeing.
Simply don't care
I'm not saying that can't happen, but it has never happened to me. Carry wet wipes, I guess.
I've known many Porsche convertible owners, and what I've learned is that if you want one, just get a Boxster instead of a 911 Cab. You save $40,000, and get a purpose built convertible roadster, instead of one kludged into a 911. Also ruins the 911's lines if you ask me.
mmmm I still like the look I think I would go with the 911 still. Boxster is nice but something about owning a proper 911 cabrio seems so comfy
I can't stop you, but I've grown up around and driving all sorts of Porsches. I really recommend a Boxster for a convertible, or for the same price point as a 911, a sexy ass 718 Spyder, which actually comes with a full Flat-6, instead of the shitty turbo'd Flat-4s they're putting in Boxster/Caymans these days.
In the end you do you though man. I wouldn't complain about another 911 being on the street.
>right near me 2017 718 with 20K km, manual, $64,000.
holy frick.
That's CAD I should mention, also that's around the same price for a 2008 Carrera S... Frick I have some thinking to do.
$64? Fricking do it man.
Yea, thats tempting as frick. How/why are 718's so cheap? Is it literally just because they aren't 911's?
Driving a new one as a man is embarrassing enough. Driving a CPO is just no.
Ah, see I don't really care I just like driving cars.
Kek. Thanks for the info on reliability. I was looking at 2008-2009 911's but a newish 718 seems really interesting since its very close in price.
I see, honestly I don't think I really care about what people think. I just want a nice drivers car.
Kek what happened to sales guy?
So between the two what is the better sunny weekend car, 997.2 Carrera S or a pretty new 718?
>I see, honestly I don't think I really care about what people think. I just want a nice drivers car.
Then do it man. I daily drive a Cayman now, it's a fantastic, nimble little car that still has a Flat-6 roars once you push it over 6k RPM. Surprisingly practical and a lot of storage space too.
The mid-engine really does help immensely with weight too. The 993 I drove was absolute sex on wheels, but if you pushed it too hard, there was always risk it stepping out and making a $90,000 "oopsie". Boxster/Caymans are so much more forgiving.
I see thanks, Porsches seem like genuine fun cars. Its a hard thing to decide about though which one to get.
Oof that fricking sucks, moronic the guy can make that frick up and get literally 0 punishment but that's life, Anything I need to worry about or get checked before and after buying?
Nothing I saved his ass, I was on an hourly contract at the time so I was “free” labor I just got paid my hourly rate x hours clocked in. Not flagging hours or anything. So the dealer just bought the top and hardware and I installed it “for free”. To the dealership I was a fixed expense, they paid me x amount per month regardless of if I cranked out a billion services or stood around picking my knows. So having me install a new skin for 2 days didn’t cost them anything other than parts.
Try to drive them in a situation where you can actually feel them when pushed. Not the easiest thing to do but maybe you can find somebody who'll let you do a lap or two at a trackday or maybe even rent one on Turo or something and take it to a twisty road. The 911 is a really unique driving experience and you're either going to love it and never want to settle for anything else, or not be that into it in which case you'd probably be better off with the 718.
A lot of reasons, perception of "poor man's 911" is part of it though. I'm much more familiar with pre-2012 Porsches to perfectly honest, but usually they kept costs down by using downtuned engines, smaller brakes/wheels, smaller car overall since they eliminate the rear seats entire, homogeneous/shared parts. 986/987 generation literally used the doors straight off the 911 and shared a huge amount of parts.
718 takes an especially big price hit though since "4-cylinder Porsche" is irremovably tied to those three numbers.
Owned a metal roof convertible (best of both worlds but heavy) and have a rag top now.
Also drive a lot of convertibles for work.
I am an all weather open driver (except hail, that hurts).
If the convertible is comfy enough you can drive it from -15C to +35C.
Rain is fine above 80 km/h and fastest I've been top down till now is 250 km/h.
Does get some windnoise at those speeds. but it's something to experience at least once.
Got a 964 cab. Driven in fair weather only. You'll get some road noise, mitigated by good tires. Mechanical failure of the roof mechanism is a thing. Cabs tend to catch strong winds, reducing stability at speed (100mph+).
I had to re-skin one of those because the sales guy ordered the top the wrong color lol
>be lady
>order blue boxster optioned with blue top and whatever gizmos and doodads
>husband loves it
>“I want the same exact car but with a black top”
>sales guy just ctrl c ctrl v the entire build sheet
>forgots to change blue to black
>car arrives blue on blue
They had to order a black top plus hardware and installation kit from Germany. Sales guy was shitting a brick. Took me like 2 days to do it since no info even in the service manual, the skin is riveted to the frame. Drilled like 50 rivets out some in really hard to reach places.
As far as your question goes the tops have been all electric for quite some time now, they’re pretty sturdy only real issue is a little road noise but even then some people like that. The car is gonna have a sound symposer anyways pumping in engine noise anyways
Forgot my pic
Every 20k service we’re supposed to check body drains and also re lube the top mechanisms. Not a lot of guys do though tbh. I always clear body drains and lube tops/panoramic roofs, as well as seals every 20k service. 92a cayenne or especially bad the sunroof drains clog and it floods the rear corners of the trunk area, fries the amp and rear end electronics module as well as wiring. Or the evaporator drain clogs and ruins the carpet. Cowl drains clog too and water gets in behind the dash. 92a in general is a drain clogging mess. Boxsters are breddy good only seen one where the front end electronics under the carpet got damaged by rain and it was cuz some tint shop cut the seals to do the tint
I own and daily drove a ZZW30. It's a blast when you can ignore most of your paranoia with keeping the car clean/intact.
>how the roof holds up at high speeds
My vinyl top came with free speed holes when I bought it. Turning it into a parachute with the top up and windows down does kind of get sketchy at highway speeds but the MR2 has a very basic b***h mechanical setup which adds to the fun.
>weather
I hope you don't live anywhere with extreme weather. Soft tops are no good if the weather is too hot or too wet. Vinyl is tough and doesn't need as much cleaning as canvas but if you live in dry weather then they become a hassle to use and maintain. I replaced my soft top with a nice canvas one and it made my car a much better daily.
>living with a convertible
Autumn/Spring becomes ultra comfy if you have good climate control and having the choice of driving top up or top down makes it feel like you have two different cars. Canvas tops are great in Summer because they don't retain much heat but don't do well in wet weather so make sure to keep up with waterproofing treatments. Vinyl is much better in wet weather but it turns your car into an oven during Summer.
Don't even think about having your soft top down if there is going to be any chance of rain or if the weather is going to be 40+ Celcius (straya) because you will bake under the sun.
Get used to drawing attention because everyone will want to have a look at your receding hairline and un-ironed shirt. You will have girls asking you if they can jump in for a ride so not a super good idea if you have a jealous partner.
Make sure you keep your soft top free of heavy dirt/bird droppings and use a good conditioner for your top. Make sure you keep the gutters clean like otherwise you will eventually have a flooded car. Don't park under trees. You will always be paranoid of your soft top getting slashed. Don't leave your car with the top down. If your model has an optional hard top, just get one.
Whatever u get try find an interesting colour combination. Body coloured backed sport seats look insane on these convertibles. Also wide body porsche look great especially in convertible form I think. Also along with the ppi, if you're looking for an older porsche, worth getting it check for bore scoring (997 and older). Just peace of mind really incase someone ragged the car when it was cold. And if it's 997.1 and older, check for ims. A rare thing to go wrong, but you don't want to get paranoid about it, and everyone will ask the damn question when it comes to selling it again. Also take your time searching, it's a buyers market for these older porsche I think, the perfect spec will come up for you.
Thanks fren I was looking between a newish 718 and a 997.2 (mostly to avoid the ims altogether) the prices are really good and yea the only thing I don't like about Porsche is just how many weird variants there are so I will sit around find one with a spec I like. One day I will 100% get one new so I can get the exact car i want but that isn't to financially responsible of me at this moment.
IMS isn't even a real issue for the 997.1s. Most the good 997.2s dried up or have shot up in price because everyone had the same idea as you about 4 years ago.
Idk, they are pretty reasonably priced in my area, im a leaf, though, so our market is pretty different.
718 is a great car and all of them are quick. I suggest manual for whatever model you get. Pdk is one expensive fricking thing to fix if it goes wrong. But it's also one, if not the best gearbox out there. They've made improvements to it over the years so a pdk in a 718 will be better than the first gen one in the 997. Also pdk with sport chrono is meant to be much quicker to 60 than its manual variant. But I don't think 0-60 is really that important.. this is a car about enjoy the driving and curves.. not Street drags knucklehead. I'm sounding like a boomer now but you get my point..
Also an option is a 987 sypder. That's should be in your range. These will not loose ANY value. More likely gain it. Find one with manual and carbon fiber bucket seats.
Not Street dragging some knucklehead*
Sorry my original post sounded like an insult lmao
Yea, if I wanted a fast car, there are a million better options. Anyway, thanks for all the advice, frens, but im tired as shit. Il keep shopping. im in no rush for a nice car.
I'd suggest driving the Evora 400 or Evora GT if you're looking at the 718. I didn't like the 718 4.0 at all in pdk. I loved the Evora GT, manual. I've driven both the 718 4.0 and Evora GT hundreds of miles each.
It's amazing, I wouldn't buy a manual 992. It's probably why I didn't like the 718 4.0, which was pdk. The 718 gearing is so long and the pdk didn't feel as nice as the 992. I only liked the interior finish compared the the Evora, but that was it. I haven't driven the Emira yet so I can't compare. The C8 is probably another option to consider unless you really want a Porsche. The service costs for Lotus are stupid high which is off putting.
Also, if you drove a used 992 s and then a 718 4.0, you'd walk away with the 992. It's so much fun and brings out the worst in you. I feel like 911s are like that. It's hard to explain but they just feel like they want to go and can be whipped around. The Boxter/Cayman is more like a miata on steroids, but not as fun as the 911. Again, this is all my opinion. You'd really have to go drive them to decide, which I highly recommend since they all drive differently.
My biggest complaint about the Boxster/Caymans has always been their gearing, extremely tall. I've driven a PDK before, it feels good as frick and is objectively better. I just don't know if I could own an automatic 911 on principal, unless I was tracking it.
im thinking that gearing is suited to the racetrack, which is a shame because this is a street car and people want to go through the gears. thats why i suggest the 986 spyder, it doesnt have the issue with bad gearing.
987*
>It's so much fun and brings out the worst in you. I feel like 911s are like that. It's hard to explain but they just feel like they want to go and can be whipped around.
997 owner here, can confirm this sentiment.
Shit, posted
before I saw that you'd said basically the same thing. Personally I think the 997 is the real sweet spot, last 911 that really feels (and sounds, to some degree) like a 911, and will probably end up being pretty collectable for that reason, but I admittedly haven't driven a 992 so I don't know how much they managed to get it feeling like a 911 again after the IMO pretty underwhelming 991.
997 is the last true 911. I'm not just saying this to try and be a gatekeeping homosexual either, like all those old codgers who said anything that wasn't air-cooled "wasn't a real 911".
After the 997, 911s stopped even handling like rear-engine cars. You can't access your own engine anymore ffs, since when you pop the rear lid up all you get is that gay little plastic engine cover. You have to take the entire rear bumper off just to do something as menial as change the engine air filter. When Porsche went to the 991 generation the 911 went from being a sports car, to a luxury touring car. Which if that's what you want, that's fine, but driving a 991 or 992 is a completely alien experience to driving any previous 911.
>997 is the last true 911
they say that about every gen. i just ignore it now
I provided actual reasoning for my statement, and wasn't even shitting on the 991/992. The thesis of what I was saying was that after the 997, the 911 went from being a sports car to a luxury tourer.
If you wanna be moronic though be my guest.
Whether you can access the engine easily doesn't define a sports car... what are you on about. Its just a hassle to get the bumper off. Most 911 owners dont even work on their own cars anyay. If you're referring to the loss of the hydraulic steering in the 991/992 results in a less sports car feel, ive seen well respected driving journalists dismiss this, some agree. It wouldng and didnt stop me from buying a 991 though. the 991.1 also was the last generation to have NA flat 6 engines, and they no longer exist in the 991.2 line up or 992, only the high end GT cars offer NA engines now. So what defines a "true" 911? Have you driven a 991.2 gts for example? I think you'd change your mind about it being a GT touring car pretty quickly..
If I were you I wouldn't going around calling other people moronic, you just make yourself out to be one of those toxic car enthusiasts.
>Whether you can access the engine easily doesn't define a sports car...
That isn't what I was suggesting. The 911 stopped being a "sports" car and became a "tourer" to me with the 991 generation because of the culmination of multiple things. The engine being hidden if just the most obvious example of this.
They hid the engine, making it a complete fricking pain in the ass to do anything other than oil or coolant. The engine on a base Carrera is now a twin turbo. The 911 has physically gotten so much larger, so that rich old men and their bimbo wives can get in and out easier, put a 997 and a 992 next to each other and you'll see what I mean. The interiors and the fact that the 992 wasn't even offered with a manual option reflect this as well. Etc, etc.
The 911 is much more of a cushy touring car than it is a legitimate sports car to me. And I've met many other Porsche owners who feel similarly.
Yeah, I used to work for a shop that did a lot of water-cooled Porsche stuff (originally an M3 specialist but we gradually shifted more and more toward Porsche) and mostly did track-oriented stuff, so I've driven or at least been for rides in pretty much every modern 911 up to the 991 GT3 on track. I left before the 992 came out though so I've never driven one. The shop always had its own race car and team too, back then it was an E92 but now they're running a pair of Porsche Cup cars and I'm sad I never got to try them out.
As far as convertibles go the 911 is pretty good. The mechanism is simple and easy to repair and leaks are uncommon.
just recently bought one for shits and gigs, thought I'd hate it but I don't
looks like its from a deceased estate with those sheep skin covers. based af.
i bought a oyster silver 2001 ford mondeo Ghia from a deceased estate, paid very little for it, because no one wanted to drive around in grandpas sedan, however it was actually very luxurious compared to other cars at that price point.
previous owner was getting arthritic and the heavy clutch was too much for his poor knees. Exceedingly based of him to get real sheepskin seat covers, the car looks like new.
In my experience, grandpas sedan is usually one of the best deals you'll find
>In my experience, grandpas sedan is usually one of the best deals you'll find
totally correct
I had a ‘19 Miata for literally less than 6 months. Bought it just as Spring was beginning and quickly realized that I hated putting the top down. I felt like the whole world was watching me. It was awesome at night, but during the day I was miserable. Sold it for a Fiesta ST.
>I hated putting the top down. I felt like the whole world was watching me.
Because they were anon. You are the main character when you have the top down.
>You are the main character when you have the top down.
Convertibles are orgasmic in the right circumstances and miserable the rest of the time.
Indeed. Get a hard top if for no other reason than you will be spending 99% of your time in it with the top up anyway.
>Get a hard top if for no other reason than you will be spending 99% of your time in it with the top up
Better yet, get a Targa
I'm a fan of targas actually. If I ever became rich enough to own multiple Porsches there would be a targa in my garage. Much prefers them to cabs.
>get a Targa
Wind noise, leaks, squeaks, and repair costs that were already $5k pre-fakedemic.
Unless you mean one of those electric glass ones, you're way off the mark
Was referring to the 997 for the repair cost, and the G-model for the unstoppable leaks. The 991 does look somewhat cheaper to fix than it's predecessor.
>and miserable the rest of the time.
I have never been miserable in my convertible, the frick are you talking about
i have a 330ci with almost 190k on it. the drop top still works fine, no tears, doesn't leak. driving at 120mph+ hair flowing like crazy is pretty fun
Hardtop will always be a better option in every aspect besides aesthetic preference
Simple as
>vert
>aesthetic
No.
I generally agree. The only convertibles I like are cars that ONLY come as convertibles, when it's a conversion of a coupe I hate it. Convertibles with back seats are especially disgusting imo. The only narrow exception I can think of is the ND Miata but that was designed as a convertible first and a targa thing second, and I'd still rather have the RF.
I have a miata but only drive it during the fall or spring and have a different fun car for the summer. I couldn't take the sun beating down on you constantly, especially if you're driving the same direction for a while. They can be great when its a bit cooler and you can have the heat going. You'll need to figure out if you're a convertible type of person.
Before I I bought the miata 2 years ago, I was seriously looking at getting used 981 cayman. Besides from the price difference (a big factor) it was the thought of the cayman being almost a garage queen. Around where I am, there's no where to even come close to what the car is capable. It seemed to be a waste of potential to be putting around in traffic all the time. The gearing is so tall that hitting redline on 2nd on my commute would never happen.
Lots of actual good advice in this thread. Modern convertible tops are quite good as far as noise, weather protection etc. But I have two issues, the first is that on 911s in particular they really don't do any favors to the lines of the car...good news for you is that this makes them usually cheaper than the equivalent coupe. Second issue is that thieves/vandals do love to slash them and it's a hassle to have replaced even with insurance. Decades ago I bought a 996 coupe because I wanted the interior space and back seats (plus it just looks better), but if you don't care about that and want a cabrio then save your money and get the newest 6cyl boxster you can afford.
>Has anyone here driven/owned a convertible?
yes
>Specifically Porsche's
yes
>I really want a convertible
they're great
>but not sure about how the roof holds up at high speeds, high winds, rain, hail, etc.
the only thing, in my experience, that hurts it is time spend in the elements with the top up (read: parked) and morons trying to put their vintage (read: older than 2010) top up or down in cool weather (read: less than 50 F).
for Boxsters specifically, the "boxster chop" is totally a thing and you just gotta do it.
but replacing the top is like $2k every 15 years, so i wouldn't worry too much about it, and i also wouldn't ""upgrade"" the top to a glass window unless you live in california, because while the transparency and longevity of the glass is nice, the tiny porthole it leaves you is actually too small to be fully useful, and i don't frick around with visibility losses.
Damn, even kept the fried egg headlights and everything.
Replacements aren't cheap, especially if you want xenon
It took 30 years but the fried eggs are starting to look OK now.
No, sorry. I don't have the 996/986 as much as some others, but the fried eggs will never look good. I'd at least want clear headlight covers on mine, not a gen 2 entirely.
Potato, frittato.
i dont mind them at all. amber delete is waaaay down on my list.
i am. i daily it when the weather is dry.
116,000 miles. first owner was a boomer lawyer in atlanta and it was services religiously with the extended warranty for the first 15 years. the second owner practically never touched it. i bought it 9 months ago and have already put more miles on her than him.
>most expensive service
michelin pilot sports on the fat rears ha, $420 installed
i chickened out on replacing a window regulator and went to porsche like a noob. $45 part i brought with me, $350 in labor (never again)
but for real service, water pump probably. i most likely over-upgraded when i was in the area, but that's not a huge problem imo:
>$235 water pump kit + low temp thermostat valve
>$50 coolant
>not sure how much cost in a couple replacement tubes for peace of mind
>$85 drive belt tension roller since i had noticed i couldn't crank on it far enough to get a new drive belt on earlier in the year AND it was a source of thrumming and squeaking
>$25 drive belt
so, what is that, $400 all said or so? i overbought coolant, didn't need the low temp thermostat (since it was already low temp as installed, i just mis-read the embossing by flashlight), could have skipped the tubing, etc. but i'm not mad. the old pump looked ok maybe? but either way, hot idle is fixed except in extreme temps and in stop-go traffic. if you've any further ideas i'm all ears, but that's a rare thing for me where i live. i will probably proactively replace a couple temp sensors at some point. i try to replace local hoses or sensors every time i have to open it up to do something anyways.
all told i'm at $5k purchase, $2k in parts and sundries, and $1.6k in "i'm too chickenshit not to pay Porsche for their overpriced labor" so far.
she runs like a frickin dream right now though.
Liking your 986? What's been your most expensive non-cabrio related service? Miles? My daily driver is a mid-mileage 987. Been enjoying the hell out of it the past year and a half.
Not a Porsche, but I've got a 1987 VW Cabriolet. It was made in the Karmann plant, which is actually where some Porsches were made.
I've owned it for several years, and have only driven with the top down once.
It's the original factory vinyl top with solid rear glass. At 65+ mph, especially driving into the wind, it makes a shit load of noise because the roof seal needs replacement. But it doesn't leak water.
If you dont have a garage to keep it in, I suggest buying some UV protectant and one of those real tough car covers designed for hail.
>I've owned it for several years, and have only driven with the top down once
In that case why not trade it for a hardtop? The hassle doesn't really seem really worth it if you never use it