My mother is in the market for a $15-20k AWD or 4WD SUV (we live where it snows a lot). She likes BMW because they're "nice," but I know Scotty hates them and I see them as moronic moneypits. In terms of reliability and maintenance + repair costs over times, how bad is an X3 compared to something like a Lexus RX 350 or a Toyota Rav-4?
Pics related is a 2014 X3 "xDrive35i" with 43k vs a 2013 RX350 with 96k miles for the same price, $15k. I'm also seeing 2016ish Rav4s with 72k miles for $17k.
Am I wrong to prefer the Toyota/Lexus with more miles? I am incredibly wary of BMW German autism repair costs. The goal is to keep the car for 5-10+ years, as long as it runs well tbh.
She could game the system and get a x3 off Carmax then buy the warranty.
I didn't know about this, it looks like it can last 100k miles/5 year, but doesn't cover certain maintenance and overheating, among other things. Still not a bad idea to look into.
I know this board hates crossovers and such but this is my mom, I drive an old Tacoma and love it. What's your alternative suggestion?
It's still worth the constant trips to the mechanics.
*not worth
Come on man we're talking about a 3-series here, it's not like it's got an active suspension or massaging seats or nothing. It's literally entry-level luxury, just above fake luxury like Buick or Acura.
>a $15-20k AWD or 4WD SUV (we live where it snows a lot).
kek thanks for the laugh
Anon, your mother has lived a nice long life, can you please just let her reward herself with a BMW and stop being a sperg?
She doesn't have the money for thousands in repairs a year.
Scotty hates everything, his content exists to appeal to poor people who want to cope that "reliability" is the only thing that actually matters in a car and that Toyota and Honda are the best brands ever that can do no wrong and that's why it's justifiable to pay $5,000-$10,000 over KBB for a used example of a Camry with an old suspension, tires, and plenty of interior damage.
That being said it's still a tough choice. At 43k miles a BMW, especially a 3-series SUV that's being mom driven, really shouldn't be having a lot of problems but it all depends on how the car has been taken care of.
Do your research, get Carfax, service records, do a PPI, but in my experience luxury cars stay closer to their peak condition for longer (German cars really only start having problems that aren't the result of user error once they near 100k, thanks German environmental regulations) and as such stuff like the suspension will stay nice up until the 70s-90s whereas a Rav4's suspension is shot within 25k miles, but Japanese cars have a more shallow "final deterioration point" if that makes sense. To use the suspension example, a Japanese car's suspension stops being "good" earlier but it is usable for way longer whereas a German suspension stays good for longer but once it goes you need to put it in the shop.
Oh yeah and avoid going to the dealership. It's a BMW, not a Porsche, it has no resale value anyways and the kind of people who will buy it don't know what a PPI is.
I mean, prices tell a story, don't they? People pay a premium for a better car that lasts longer and costs less in repairs? And good explanation, I'm really not interested in "good" just "usable."
Okay, but you're freaking out about a BMW that all-things-considered probabably has at least a good 50k miles on it left and not that much fancy tech because society told you that wanting nice things is always bad because it makes you stand out from the poors.
The people who like to say shit like "if you can't afford it new, you can't afford it new," are also generally the ones that can't afford it used either, and love the idea that their piece of garbage automatic Civic that they've been soaking sweet and sour sauce into the seats of goes for $8,000 on Facebook Marketplace.
*can't afford it used, sorry I'm high.
You're honestly talking me out of it even more lol. To me, "nice things" are things that work, not status symbols that don't work as well and cost you money you could have spent on other nice things for little to no marginal benefit. They both go from point A to point B.
Okay then why are you here, honestly?
I was hoping someone would have some numbers or hard data on the maintenance costs because I can't find much good info online.
If all you care about is point A to B and maitenence costs. Yes, a Toyota is going to be cheaper than a BMW. That's just fact. No you're not going to go bankrupt paying for 93 at the pump instead of 87.
I really think you should let your Mom make the decision on this one though, it's her car to drive.
43k miles isn't much, sounds like a lease car. Bmw as a grocery-mobile wouldn't really be much of a problem. Just tell her to get the oil changed regularly, don't take it to shop unless engine light is on.
Didn't you already make this thread, OP?
If you mom is an idiot she's an idiot.
There's been a few threads like this.
Surprised its not overwhelmed with 'not your money' posts yet.
RX450h owner here. Had similar choice, eventually decided against the F25 (30d in my case) because was looking for a reliable second car which would hold its value well and won't cause headaches (I have other vehicles for that). Four years after I don't feel any disappointment, but don't want to sell the Lexus either.
A 2014 with 43k miles is suspicious. How did it make it this far and keep those miles? Unless, best case, retired person, barely used, maintained and garage kept. Which is a good point to used BMW/Merc unlike Mustang or Camaro that will usually be trashed inside. Or, it was wrecked at 43k and sat, bought at auction by Achmed and the gang who slap a new front bumper and paint to match. Check engine light comes on after 34 miles which is long long it takes BMW to cycle thru a battery reset and CEL comes back on. Better check for oil leaks. Oil pan gasket job is 1675.00 for example. Look for damage under the car. It's still a 10yo BMW, you're almost at project car status, despite the 43k. Seals and rubber dry rot and crack. You will be paying to maintain a 10yo BMW. It is worth it as it is much better all the way around vehicle imo.
It's an example I found on CarGurus, it said no damage or accidents at least. Thanks for the post, sorry I explained my thread poorly but my mom doesn't have a lot of money to throw around and I'm looking for hard data and facts on the additional costs.
Not me, anon.
>not me, anon.
That means that this is a very common thing that's happening. Gen X women after being successful want a BMW.
The thing is she's not successful. That's why I think it's a moronic purchase and want to talk her out of it.
I know it's cooler and faster, but I'm really here because I'm concerned about how much more expensive it will be so I can convince her she can't afford it.
What do you mean she's not successful? Does she make less than 50k or something? Is she a skinny black woman or something? BMW is for black girls that think they're hot, and people that don't want a Land Rover when they have too much money and no thing to spend it on.
Ok, here's hard data, I have 2011 3 series with 104k miles. At 86k miles I needed eccentric crankshaft sensor, that's under the valve cover. 3k job, they wanted to replace plastic valve cover too but that's 686.00 so I said gasket only. Did plugs and coils, belt since everything is taken apart and original. 4k total. Would have been close 5k if I replaced plastic valve cover.
Then front elec cooling fans stopped, that was 1700.00. Then Catalytic converters around 96k, new cats and o2 sensors was 4300.00. Window lift motor was over 500.00. You need to be committed to BMW sadomasochism hard mode to buy a 10yo bimmer.
You should join us, your mom, don't do that to her bro.
New and under warranty or read above.
Damn yeah that's way too much for a car that's not that old. Is 5-6 years old any better or same stuff just delayed slightly?
She doesn't have money to spend on things people with "too much money" blow money on.
You could alternatively look at some Mercedes models such as the GLK - you can get them with n/a motors and they make for great mom-tier cruisers. Nearly all of them aren't abused, and the M276 motors used in them (and similar year ML350 etc) are the most reliable of their engine family with early-model M273 problems such as balance shafts already being fixed.
I lean for MB ahead of BMW obviously, but even the X3 isn't bad. That low of mileage already means 5+ years of essentially no maintenance, and once you do the required items at 100k miles you're set for the long run. Just like the MB, early model 35i turbo engines such as the N54 had some problems, but the ones in those X3s are the N55s which have had most common issues fixed. Since your mom likely isn't going to be throwing a tune on it and chasing after Scat Packs, the X3 would likely be a fine choice since it's low enough mileage where if you/your family don't thrash it it'll last.
I can't trash the Lexus by comparison, but it's honestly just a far more boring, tame choice with a cabin that is going to feel cheaper. The X3's got a twin turbo 6 that pushes it from 0-60 in nearly 5 seconds flat, for instance - the RX, well, who cares? (okay, 7 seconds)
True, and the GLK is nice 2008-2015. Best option when wanting that type SUV but not 4x4/AWD or basically avoid transfer case unless needed. But he said rain and snow. So he'll want that extra maintenance item. MB is relaunching the GLK btw.
This is in Anchorage, Alaska btw. I don't love the prospects of BMW plastics holding up at -25.
The RX has the problem of snow packing at the top of the trunk hatch when you open it btw. Besides that it's fine in cold temps.
>but I know Scotty hates them
Anon, making actual life decisions based on youtuber opinions is significantly more moronic than your mom getting a mildly used BMW.
While we're here, try convincing my mom not to get her 3rd new $120k Range Rover in 4 years.
It's a lost cause.
>Am I wrong to prefer the Toyota/Lexus with more miles?
Yes, you're absolutely wrong and you're a pleb with shit taste