Is there any reason to get either one in the first place? They're both so overhyped and underpowered it's not even funny
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Is there any reason to get this over a Miata?
Is there any reason to get either one in the first place? They're both so overhyped and underpowered it's not even funny
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Miata is gay and doesn't have back seats or a roof.
Only on DA is a 210-230whp 2800lb FR "underpowered"
its the opposite, nowadays people are so inundated with hellcats, trx, raptors, AMGs, Ms, etc. that anything under 500 hp is poorgay econobox tier
Everything you listed is 3x the price of the 86 and their owners don't take a turn faster than the posted speed limit
Why is price relevant in this discussion? Getting major ick from this post ngl
Mustang and Camaro both have over 450hp and aren't much more than BRZ. You can play the weight card all you want I'm just saying no reason ford can sell a 310hp turbo for 30k but toyobaru can't.
It's a different class of car. You're doing the equivalent of complaining how slow Miatas are in 1994 when you could buy a 285hp Camaro that does 160mph for less money.
It's not a different class. They're all 2 door 4 seat rwd 4 cylinder cars. The BRZ is just a little bit shorter. The size doesn't have anything to do with the engine. The proof is people adding aftermarket turbos. There's clearly enough room for them.
>aren't much more than BRZ
what the frick kind of cope is this
I don't know. You tell me.
>Mustang and Camaro both have over 450hp and aren't much more than BRZ.
Both about $55k new minimum, same as Z. Supra is like $63k. Maro has the LT1 special for $40k, which is notable but you are giving up the option of better suspension, brakes, etc. LT1 is hands down the best value deal if you can cough up the extra eight grand. 86 is like $32k and MX5 is $40k.
Buddy, a new fricking mustang gt is going to be over 50k out the door.
I never see these. Rich people here get EV suvs that are faster than all of those anyway.
>the entire world is America
Slower 0-60 than a new prius?
Yeah i'd say that's underpowered LMAO
Is this the new troll post? A guy practicing his launches making a video? Yawn.
Heh,
got so butthurt that anons would consider a gr86 over a 370z in the other thread so he posted here too.
MALDING
Ironically I like both cars, but I'd rather have the 2-3 year old car I don't have to work on for 5-10 years than the 100,000 mile Z I might have to do a oil galley gasket or drop the trans for a CSC as soon as I get it.
On DA a 200whp 2800lb S2000 $25,000 is...le GOOD and worth it but a 210-230whp 2800lb $30,000 new car is...LE BAD!
>On DA a 200whp 2800lb S2000 $25,000 is...le GOOD and worth it but a 210-230whp 2800lb $30,000 new car is...LE BAD!
Both are LE BAD
Eh they're ok. I wouldn't buy either one myself because miatas are for homosexuals and 86 has a piece of shit subaru engine but they're better then the fwd automatic shitboxes most ppl here drive.
S2ks are worth 12 which is what I paid
The new s2k is a cammed 2.5 swap nc
>The new s2k is a cammed 2.5 swap nc
What the frick are you talking about, what is this
he's saying a 2.5 swapped MX5 NC with Cams is the new S2K (likely because they're cheap, have much better steering feel than the S2K and the 2.5 duratec is also super cheap to buy).
Honestly I think the S2K was always kind of shit.
Duratec Swapped MX5s are a lot of effort and money for a extra 40whp
i mean, in the same way any swap is i suppose, transplanting an engine is an expensive process.
However, compared to most other swaps, this is a direct drop in and both car and engine are cheap.
I actually think you're better off doing a decent intake/exhaust/tune on a 2.0 NC. It's closer to 20-25whp between a cammed 2.5 and 2.0 with bolt ons. I mean unless you find a NC with a blown motor.
this is what I did on my own car. Makes 180hp/207nm with the il motorsport header, cobrasport road backbox and tune.
Plan is to do a cammed 2.5 swap if it blows up.
Don't think it will though. seems to be mostly NC1s that blow up.
>On DA a 200whp 2800lb S2000 $25,000 is...le GOOD and worth it but a 210-230whp 2800lb $30,000 new car is...LE BAD!
I agree with the point that you're making, but have you actually driven one of these?
An S2000 is revvy and fun, and in stock form toyobarus just aren't. They are lethargic and revs feel like they increase far slower.
I agree that benchracers talking about headline figures go "lol only X power", however they do have a real issue in that the powertrain just isn't fun and quick feeling at all. There are plenty of other low-powered, fun cars that feel very sprightly in comparison.
Honestly they drive a lot better with a tune and header/exhaust. I actually have. I think it handles better than the S2000 because it's a lot more controllable and easier to bring back into line. It's not as willing to continue sliding until it gets stopped by a solid object.
I'm talking specifically about the engine though and how fun it is to accelerate and drive.
I'm not saying that toyobarus are bad and that they can't be improved etc. and they do handle very nicely and have low weight.
I like them, but I do find the powertrain pretty disappointing. I think that that is what truly limits sales somewhat, people test driving them and going "is that it?" when they put their foot down.
Yeah. I bought mine because I was in the market for a Corolla, saw an FRS for similar miles/price, and I thought the engine felt good *compared to a Corolla*. I couldn't imagine buying one because you think it's going to be an actual sports car engine.
Fair enough.
Personally, I think that they should have made them more expensive and just put the turbocharged version of the engine in them, that they already make, or at least have it as a more expensive powertrain option.
Then it would have still been extremely light, still pretty cheap and would have had very good power to weight and would be very tuneable.
They're decent cars and I like them. They're a bit expensive in my market though (UK) despite being ideal for our twisty roads.
Why does it look angry
Most publications has 0-60 at under 6 seconds consistently.
>over 2 minutes to stop from 60mph
did they forget to put brakes on this shitheap?
>underpowered
You don't need power when you are driving downhill on the Akina pass.
No, making a sports car with less than 300 wheel horsepower in 2010+14 is despicable. It's not hard. Sports car, as in motorsports. Where more powerful cars are better.
>but muh touge
Listen, kid. If you're ever in the right gear on a straight and can go foot to the floor without wheelspin, you can use more power. Whp/weight is the single most important stat in a performance car. Know what's just as fast as a 230whp gr86? A 400whp gr86 with a light foot. I shouldn't have to explain this kind of thing to you I guess not everyone is gifted with enough autism to intrinsically understand cars.
>Know what's just as fast as a 230whp gr86? A 400whp gr86 with a light foot.
Then the car would not weigh 2800lbs, and the fact you can say this with a straight face speaks volumes. 90% of people cannot get the full performance out of a 200-240whp 2700-3000lb car which is why there's so many people tracking Miatas, E30/36/46 3-Series, S2000s, RX8s, etc for a long time. Just buy another car. It unironically takes a very long time to master a high horsepower car.
If this was 1994 you'd be complaining about how the Miata is sports car with sub 150hp and how your 1992 GTI/Sentra is faster. Buy another car, it's not the car for you. Teslas run 10s with no effort if you want to be a drag racer.
Smells like incel cope lol
Enjoy being a slowgay ig
maybe one day you'll do a sub2, if you start now you'll make intermediate pace by end of the year. I believe in you anon 🙂
www.motorsportreg.com
The GR Yaris produces 300hp from an i3. Why not put that engine in the 86? Simple: Toyota couldn’t make fun cars, so they outsourced it to Subaru, who insisted on using shitty subaru engines.
Because it's a different car and the car wouldn't be made without Subaru donating the rear end, spindles/control arms/brakes from a Impreza. The only Toyota parts are the styling and fuel injection.
Again, it's not the car for you. That's fine. Now stop seething and go outside.
Its the modern 240SX. It's a entry level 4 cylinder coupe meant to compete with the Miata. 240SXs were also piss slow and expensive in the 1990s, and slower than Camaros for the same money.
And unlike a Miata this has backseats and a trunk. Surprised the 500lb heavier car with 50-60whp more gets worse gas mileage?
>Surprised the 500lb heavier car with 50-60whp more gets worse gas mileage?
yeah im surprised toyota would put their name on a vehicle this bad
you know they could've just not made it right
It's built in a Subaru factory because the Toyota factories are too busy making Rav4s and CHRs that sell more
The mustang is another 500lbs still and the backseats and trunk are big enough to not be utterly useless. How's come that's not another $4k in fuel then?
Because it has a turbo. The whole point of manufacturers going to turbo engines is for fuel economy. It's like asking why does a 5.0 have worse mpg than a Ecoboost.
Is this bait? The mustang I posted had the 5.0 n/a v8 as I eluded to. Looking at the turbo four stang it's more powerful and way cheaper to feed.
And turbos don't make for good fuel economy. A turbo 4 will be worse than an equivalent n/a 4 pretty much any time it's not this piece of Subaru trash. A turbo 4 will on paper get more fuel economy than an n/a V8 that makes about the same power, because the engineers get extra variables to manipulate the standardized test with. That comes at a huge price in terms of longevity, but if you're in the business of selling cars and/or parts that's a feature not a bug.
(Side note, the assumptions for the prices of fuel get updated on the fuel economy website from time to time which is why some of the numbers are different than the screenshot I posted before.)
the three mustangs to the right make all the same 300hp
it's gearing (often 2.73s on mustangs for fuel economy figures), high compression, and n/a vs turbo which is why the 2.3t gets way better mpg than a 2010 4.6 3v for the same horsepower.
just buy a used Tesla it's more up your alley
350Zs make 220-230whp the same as a GR86 while weighing 500lbs more on average
And that's after 10 years of Mexican teenagers turning them into drift cars so good luck finding one it's actually rather hard now
350z's can turn right without the engine exploding 86cels can't stop losing, hr 350z's and the 370 make more than 230whp
>If you're ever in the right gear on a straight and can go foot to the floor without wheelspin, you can use more power.
Muttgroid hands typed this, while slaloming in interstate traffic.
lap times and smiles per gallon are the only stats that matter
>below 300hp
>"sports car"
Lol nicd cope.
isn't the sports in sportscar short for motorsports? miatas are very competitive in autocross. what motorsport are cars like the mustang competitive in?
>what motorsport are cars like the mustang competitive in?
drag racing
crowd plow
homie my 2015 honda has 270HP
how does your 2015 honda do in tracks
#Wrekt
It's a bit more practical than a miata as an only car.
>underpowered
Both cars don't prioritize the engine for their price points. If ya want more, don't be a wrenchlet.
Notice how the only reasonable reply gets ignored
At 6' I feel considerably more comfortable in an 86 than a miata
at 6'1 i fit in the Miata fine. my buddy has an NA and it's fine with bucket seats. tell us you're fat without telling us you're fat.
>underpowered
They're not meant for driving straight on burger highways you obese clown
dont you have a 0.9L quad turbocharged dual cat 72hp shitbox to be driving under the speed limit enforced by traffic cameras ever 10 feet
What do you have against Europe's Hellcat?
Pros
4 seats
A bit more power
Cheaper used
Cons
No convertible
I dont care if the 86 is slow, I like it because of how it looks and it's more fun than traditional normieboxes. are there any other cars worth considering if this is why I like the 86?
The fact that nobody has replied to you indicates that toyobarus are simply good cars with lots of busriding haters. You'll drive a 200hp car as fast as you drive a 800hp car (on the road) so get whatever you like the most.
I don't like convertibles and the RF miata was significantly more expensive.
most tracks have long enough straights that a 500+ hp car is always going to have a better lap time than a car with an emphasis on handling like the Miata or the 86. If you just enjoy backroads/canyons occasionally, not only is there very few rare opportunities to use all 500+ horsepower on roads like that, but the added weight of high horsepower cars is such a detriment that you'll be way slower than the average shitbox 90's civic driving on those roads. A car being underpowered or too heavy is determined by what you use it for. A track build will not do well on a lot of mountain roads, and a """touge""" build will be slower than most modern cars on a track.
>"""touge""" build will be slower than most modern cars on a track.
Not true, the difference between the two is aero and that's only because you risk ripping a splitter off if you're too low. A good touge car is going to have the same suspension as a track build with maybe slightly lower spring rates (both will have $600+/each shocks and the widest 200TWs you can fit under the wheel wells)
A few of those sub2 cars from that Instagram page are also very fast in the canyons and run them regularly.
Aero, suspension travel, touge cars need to be road legal, no point in risking reliability and adding weight to go over 300hp for a touge car either as long as its under 300lbs. some of the roads in my area that people get kind of serious about still have records held by stock motor 1.8 NA Miatas. Those are not going to do well on track.
3000lbs*
A lot of the people that run canyons in Socal run AutoX and track days in the daytime. They're not really switching cars or even setups, if they're fast on the track they're fast in the canyons. I know a few that either do Spec Miata, win Solo Nationals Trophies, or run Expert/Instructor Group at HPDEs and will run away from most people at Little T.
My local historical racing club has cars that converge to that "touge car" set of characteristics (aside from being road legal since they are caged and run semi-slicks). On regular track days they bully low-grade 911s and such, they obviously get away on long straights because the oldtimers have 190-220 hp, but then consistently lose momentum in curvier sections and get caught because stiff suspension and grippy tires carry a lot more speed in and out of the corners.
But then again, it really depends on the track. We have an F1-eligible track in the country and oldtimers don't race on it because it is too wide and its straights are too long to provide entertaining racing for them, and I'm also sure that modern sportscars are faster around it.
>uses the word "tooge"
Were you dropped as a baby or just born this way?
he put in it several quotes which leads me to believe he also does not like the term. friendly fire against what is probably the one other non-weeb DA user
My bad, I must have misunderstood because I was too busy "Tooging" on the "Tooge" while I watch "Anime Cartoons" and "Hen Tie"
The Miata is lighter, way better on fuel, and a convertible. I also haven't heard word one about RTV or problems with going around a right hand corner without having added an extra quart of oil.
I've said before and will say again, I wouldn't mind the brz86 power output if the motor was reliable and economical. But it just isn't. You get fuel bills like a v8 cylinders, with half the power and it still can't be reliable? It's an impressively poor showing of engineering.
>too small
>no rear seats
>convertible = irrelevant for me
I'm with you anon(s)
I kept looking at the GR86 but the fuel economy was atrocious for the power level. I could have gone one direction and gotten a Miata or, the direction I went, and got a more practical and massively more efficient Corolla hatch at the cost of sportiness, as this was a car getting daily duty.
My friend wanted an 86 and I just... I dunno. I don't think it's a BAD car...It's just...Not the best at anything. You want cheap affordable sporty lightweight you go Miata, you want backseats a trunk and more power just get a mustang or Camaro ffs.
What's it the best at? What apex does it own? What's its niche?
People will argue the car "isn't meant for" x or y or z
Then what is it meant for? Are we supposed to cope and say it's not the best at anything and just accept that it's a kind of a jack of some trades and not really the master of any of them? I mean I'm fine accepting that something isn't the best, it can still have a purpose, it can still be enjoyed but like, that's not the argument I'm seeing from proponents of it. The argument I see more often than not is that it's the best cheap driver's car there is and I just can't agree with that.
Drive it instead of asking a bunch of anonymous posters.
I like mine. I think it has certain traits that you can't really put numbers on (namely how it drives). If I got a car that drove better it would be at least $10k more or 10 years older and used.
hatches are ugly and the corolla is underpowered.
what other car can i get? the jetta gli? lexus is/rc350?
It makes more sense in non American markets, where you do not have option of muscle cars.
It is a bit more practical and expensive than Miata, but it is way cheaper than next tier of sports cars, such as Supra, Porsche, Lotus etc.
Oh wait you can not even get it in Europe anymore...
>bad mpg
I don't think it's true tbh, mine gets 35 hwy 27ish city. It's true that a corolla would get more for being a car of the same size but it's not as if 27/35 is *bad*
27/35 and it takes premium. The premium is what's the killer for me. Like UGH how??? How does it take premium?
>how does it take premium?
By being a high compression engine. You COULD run 87 if you really wanted to, it would run like poo, but you COULD
miata is a womens car that looks like dogshit? at least get a 944 or something
Lose 400 pounds and we will talk
Put a v6 camry engine in it. Or a Pentastar.
im in the market for a new car unironically considering this.
but what would be a slightly faster version of this car? the lexus rc 350?
the new integra with a tune will supposedly get you to around 240-250wheel. seems like nobody has driven one yet though
Cayman S is actually a car that's often compared to the 86/BRZ. Only other car that comes to mind is the E46M3 or 370Z, but those are heavier (3300-3400lbs) and more powerful (270-300whp) with more tire (often 245 front/265 rear).
yeah, to survive a crash if you ever get into one
The engines are shit, like all other new Subaru engines. They're a great drive but if you're looking for a small sports car to last you over a decade, the Miata will do it easily.
people still drive the original FRS
>boxer, subaru >:|
>boxer, porsche :O
both le bad
They're not underpowered at all. And it's much more practical than the Miata.
>List of Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times
> 7:58.29 Ford Mustang Mach 1 (Mk6, 2021, N/A 5.0, 460 PS)
> 7:59.1 Toyota GR86 (2023)
> 8:07 Ford Mustang GT Performance Pack
If it’s your only car and you occasionally need to carry people or stuff
>people think convertible is a plus
Lmao what is this board full of gays and women??
>I HATE enjoying my car!
>enjoying a drive is a BAD thing!
Different cars. Miata is a fast slow car, 86 is a slow fast car.
Miat has a floppy chassis and is deliberately set up soft suspension-wise, which gives it fun and predictable cornering at slower speeds and makes it more suited to things like autocross than to track racing. Increasing power makes it sketchy.
86 is a lot stiffer, more like a grown-up sportscar except with half the power. With a set of good tires it is seriously grippy, way grippier than what its engine can break, so there's a lot of potential in it.
To add to this, if you setup suspension on the Miata it comes close to the 86 but if you setup suspension on the gr86 it’s on par if not faster than the 400z
Which is best for the safest way to experience oversteer in daily use? Ideal scenario is constant opportunities for oversteer (and correction) at low speeds like 25mph corners, so if I frick up, I won't die/damage anything.
I give absolutely zero fricks about going fast, I just want to feel oversteer as much as possible all the time but not die or end up in jail. What's best for that? I was thinking putting some cheap uber rock hard PVC tires on any RWD car might work to get this experience of max slippage.
the safest way to experience oversteer is running bald rears in an empty parking lot in the rain
if you want to learn how to deal with oversteer in a realistic scenario then you'll have to do it in a real car with real tires
if you just want to drift then go to drift night at k1 speed until you realize that it's not nearly as fun irl as it is in sims
Overly stiff rear sway bar, the upside is you can switch back to stock in a few minutes once you realize you're moronic.
If you want a roof (I do), the Miata is way more expensive. The GR86 is also just barely practical in terms of grocery hauling space thanks to the fold down rear"""seats""" connecting to the trunk.
I've had my 86 for a year and never had an issue with trunk space. Unless you are hauling furniture or something regularly. It's a normal sized trunk
Fair enough, I didn't mean that as an insult to the GR86. I just think it's a big plus you can have this much storage space in such a tiny car compared to what you get in the Miata.
>underpowered
You're not a race car driver. You are a regular civilian.
the last good sports car was the NC Miata. Everything after that has electric power steering and is extremely gay.
Ugly slow gay
Lmao @ that wheel gap
The 350z shits on the underpowered fragile boxer engined shit
replace the 5 with a 7 and you'd have made a gigabased post
still true tho
Basically the same car
>he thinks the nigshit 350z is a better ride.
EL OH EL
the only reasons to get the GR86 over the ND2/ND3 is because you 'can only have one car', you think the miata is 'gay' but somehow the GR is not, or you 'hate' convertibles
thanks anon, i decided to get a gr86 because of your horrendous post
I might be too tall for a miata 🙁
>I might be too tall for a miata 🙁
lmao just put the roof down
I've been seeing a lot of women driving these. If the choice is between another soulless cuckover and a coupe, I think it's cool some are choosing the 86. Not all of them can afford more powerful new coupes so I think it's cool it exists.
I've unironically seen a lot of zoomer girls buy NDs or GRs if they want to own something that doesn't look like their parents crossover for a new car. Usually the same type into fashion buying a car as a accessory.