1983 was unironically one of the best years in the history of the WRC. Would I call the Group B era the peak? No, simply because of how many people got killed.
>the peak of a dangerous sport is not when it was the most dangerous
maybe watch a different league if you dont want to see blood and guts idk
nta but even barring the psychological factor for the drivers themselves, it's such a useless waste of talent; even if it wasn't people like blomqvist and salonen dying, everyone in that series was the cream of the crop across the *world*
>troony racing cars dressed up to look like real cars
No thanks, I'd much prefer to see REAL CARS racing, or if you want to race specially built tubeframe racing cars just race specially built tubeframe racing cars, don't turn them into trannies and pretend they're something else.
Is it really a hot take to prefer production car based racing cars over silhouette style racing cars?
I'm certain there's plenty of boomers who loathe NASCAR for making the switch.
>I'd much prefer to see REAL CARS racing
Lol. Lmao.
They were never "real" cars, in any series. Every team made adjustments to the gearing, engine, aero... That RS2000 will have a lot more done to it than any RS2000 you could buy off the lot.
MST will make you a MK1 Ford Escort in any trim you'd like. If you wanted to Homologate a new MK1 Ford Escort rally car from them then you'd need to buy a few. They will all be road legal and therefore Real cars.
I agree. Peak racing. Not so fond of watching rally though. Too boring waiting for the cars, half an hour watching, then off to the next vantage point. Rather go to watch at a circuit
...Do you not get what homologation specials are? Like the e30 m3, impreza wrx, mitshubishi evo, etc only being a thing because of group a homologation requirements?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
might as well show the quattro sport too
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
But Group B only required 200 homologation units
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The e30 m3, impreza wrx, mitshubishi evo were all actually made and sold in large numbers. They all shared the same basic or very similar monocoque chassis designs as the bog standard mass produced models. They all shared the same engine placement as the base models. The e30 shared the same drive wheels with the base model and the base impreza could be optioned with the same drive wheels.
If you'd paid attention to my posts you'd know I LIKE group 4 and group A homologation cars because they were real cars.
and they had to be sold to the public as roadworthy cars, there's nothing about them that makes them less real, they are not comparable with sillouette racers that only have a bodyshell that resembles some production car.
Hell 200 is a higher numbers than many hypercars (like the pagani huyara, which was limited to 100 cars or so), and i don´t see them being any less of a "real car".
The road going porsche 962 group c cars (one of which was made to homologate the car for gt1 and troll the aco) are no less of a real car either.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>and they had to be sold to the public as roadworthy cars, there's nothing about them that makes them less real
I'll grant you that
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>build 50 >pretend it's 200 >don't bother to make the 50 even fully functional >bother to "sell" even fewer >give it the same name as the real car >"IT'S A REAL CAR BROS"
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Which car specifically are you talking about? 205 t16 had at least 240 cars built, 40 of which were dedicated racers. Quattro sport reportedly had 224 cars built. Delta s4 was the only one we know that didn't achieve the 200 figure, as the competition was canceled before it could finish development, and while lancia had also fudged the production figures of the stratos by not reaching the 500 cars minimum, they did manage to build 207 lancia 037s.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>he doesn't know about the spaghettiBlack person trickery
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
EVERY manufacturer tricked the fia into accepting that they had built all 200 cars at first when they in fact hadn´t. These cars were fround the ground up designed, built and tested in less than 2 years, which was really fast even back then, asking them to build 200 versions of the car and sell them within that the same period of time was just unrealistic. They did went through with it over time because they didn´t want to suffer the humiliation of being disqualified from the competition (no guesses as to why lancia didn´t care about that with the delta s4), but that still means some really cool cars got made.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's almost as if they weren't real cars
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Peugeot actually made their cars, and made them very well. Out of all of the homologation cars, the 205 T16 had the highest quality, and wasn't just thrown together with leftover bolts and wood screws.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Delta S4 had ever so special fire extinguishers that had to be re-filled after every stage.
Are we ready to talk about ground effect yet?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Only one manufacturer did that, and it was on the 037.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The e30 m3, impreza wrx, mitshubishi evo were all actually made and sold in large numbers. They all shared the same basic or very similar monocoque chassis designs as the bog standard mass produced models. They all shared the same engine placement as the base models. The e30 shared the same drive wheels with the base model and the base impreza could be optioned with the same drive wheels.
If you'd paid attention to my posts you'd know I LIKE group 4 and group A homologation cars because they were real cars.
What I don't get is how in spite of the crazy engines and aero, it didn't take long for the much more restricted Group A cars to begin to outpace Group Bs.
For me, it's 3.5L Group C regs. The cars were essentially aero-optimised F1 cars running 5 figure RPM V8s and 10s that looked great and were the fastest cars of their era.
Shame they were too expensive and the racing wasn't so great. But the cars were GOAT.
1988 Trans Am race was kino. The Audi 200 Quattro Trans Am was so good, America banned it from racing cuz the Americans didn't like losing so much. :^)
>1988 Trans Am race was kino.
It was good cuz seeing mutts getting butthurt over losing to Germans since WW2 was hilarious. But it wasn't just the Americans who grew to dislike Audi. In the 1980s in Germany, the DTM series banned turbo engines, effectively preventing Audi's 200 from dominating the series. Audi's answer was the naturally aspirated V8 Quattro. One of my most favorite cars I ever owned was a 1990 Audi V8 quattro 5spd. In 1990, Audi ran that car in the DTM series against BMW M3s and Mercedes 190s. Initially, BMW and Mercedes laughed at the idea that Audi would run a large luxury sedan against their sports-oriented compact sedans. The laughing didn't last long as the V8 Quattro driven by Stuck started winning races and eventually Stuck took the Championship. Not pleased that Audi had so easily circumvented the turbo engine ban to bring Audi's dominance to road racing, BMW and Mercedes went back to their lobbying efforts to gain a competitive advantage, and they convinced the governing body to impose a weight penalty on Audi. Rather than being defeated by the political wrangling of its Deutsch rivals, Audi went back to the workshop and cleverly found a way to twist the V8 Quattro's crank shaft to convert it from a cross-plane configuration to a flat plane arrangement, which increased the peak rev range and the overall power. Audi again dominated the series, until BMW and Mercedes lobbied to have the V8 Quattro declared illegal, which they finally succeeded at doing. For me, the V8 Quattro ranks up with the original quattro design and the LeMans TDI cars, as perhaps the best proof of the ingenuity and prowess of Audi's engineering group. When storied rivals like Mercedes and BMW have to resort to white collar advocates to take down their competition, you know you're doing something right.
[...]
america shat on Europe so hard with the Viper that it received far more ballast than the quattro ever did and it wasn't even AWD.
and it STILL ended up lapping the entire field with 900 lbs of ballast. it was shitting on AWD cars like the quattro and R34 GTR, too. it even b***h slapped the Mclaren F1 multiple times.
speaking of prototypes, no prototype was more dominate than pic related. not even the fastest cars from F1 Style Group C could touch it. its lap records are only slightly slower than the Audi Prototypes that would race in the 2000s, which suggest it would've still been competitive with modern race cars on modern rubber.
>not even the fastest cars from F1 Style Group C could touch it
That's loaded statement. It only ever raced against one of the 3.5L Gr.C cars which was already a year old and saw no real development after the mid-season test that year. TWR USA didn't even want to use it, but they were able win two races in which they were racing against both Eagles plus one more race in which they classified higher than them.
>1988 Trans Am race was kino.
It was good cuz seeing mutts getting butthurt over losing to Germans since WW2 was hilarious. But it wasn't just the Americans who grew to dislike Audi. In the 1980s in Germany, the DTM series banned turbo engines, effectively preventing Audi's 200 from dominating the series. Audi's answer was the naturally aspirated V8 Quattro. One of my most favorite cars I ever owned was a 1990 Audi V8 quattro 5spd. In 1990, Audi ran that car in the DTM series against BMW M3s and Mercedes 190s. Initially, BMW and Mercedes laughed at the idea that Audi would run a large luxury sedan against their sports-oriented compact sedans. The laughing didn't last long as the V8 Quattro driven by Stuck started winning races and eventually Stuck took the Championship. Not pleased that Audi had so easily circumvented the turbo engine ban to bring Audi's dominance to road racing, BMW and Mercedes went back to their lobbying efforts to gain a competitive advantage, and they convinced the governing body to impose a weight penalty on Audi. Rather than being defeated by the political wrangling of its Deutsch rivals, Audi went back to the workshop and cleverly found a way to twist the V8 Quattro's crank shaft to convert it from a cross-plane configuration to a flat plane arrangement, which increased the peak rev range and the overall power. Audi again dominated the series, until BMW and Mercedes lobbied to have the V8 Quattro declared illegal, which they finally succeeded at doing. For me, the V8 Quattro ranks up with the original quattro design and the LeMans TDI cars, as perhaps the best proof of the ingenuity and prowess of Audi's engineering group. When storied rivals like Mercedes and BMW have to resort to white collar advocates to take down their competition, you know you're doing something right.
america shat on Europe so hard with the Viper that it received far more ballast than the quattro ever did and it wasn't even AWD.
and it STILL ended up lapping the entire field with 900 lbs of ballast. it was shitting on AWD cars like the quattro and R34 GTR, too. it even b***h slapped the Mclaren F1 multiple times.
The audi quattro needed american engineering in the form of the Torsen differential used in its AWD. germencucks can't make cool cars on their own.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Mutts needed german invention, such as the car. muttcucks can't make cool cars on their own.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
But Henry ford made the car. no one cared about europe's shitty bicycles.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>two hungarian yuropoors made the car for henry ford
ftfy
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
i didn't know Childe Harold Wills (MAIN ENGINEER) was hungarian.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
lol, lmao even
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>To improve the design concept and to limit outside interference Ford had a “experimental room” walled off in one corner of the plant. Inside the experimental room only a few key employees were allowed to work full time, and fewer others were allowed to peek inside at the progress. The key employees who worked in the experimental room were engineer / draftsmen Joseph Galamb, Jules Hartenberger, Charles Balough, and Eugene Farkas. Henry Ford’s right hand man and fairly competent metallurgist / tool maker Childe Harold Wills ( he hated the name Childe and always signed his name C. Harold) was regularly in the room, and C.J Smith who fabricated parts for the new Ford. Equipment inside the third floor experimental room included a few drafting tables, a lathe, mill and other miscellaneous machine tools that ran off a line shaft mounted to the ceiling. There were two large black boards, and a small rocking chair for Henry Ford. The design team of Galamb, Farkas, Balough and Hartenberger were all Hungarian immigrants who frequently discussed the project in their home language. Galamb claimed that some calculations were done in metric and later converted to US measurement standards. Henry Ford was impressed by the group, and apparently did not mind them operating in their native tongue. In fact he is known to have said things like “let’s hear some of that dago talk and get some work done” when he thought they were not moving fast enough!. In any case their efforts revolutionized the car, and the results speak for themselves today.
ohnononono
>Although credit for the development of the assembly line belongs to Ransom E. Olds, with the first mass-produced automobile, the Oldsmobile Curved Dash, having begun in 1901
el em eff ah oh.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>assembly line is car
lmao
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>the very thing that makes the model T, the model T
yes?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>henry ford made the car >no it was 4 europoors actually while mutts sat in the corner >b-but muh assembly line
lmfao
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>no it was actually oldsmobile while eurocucks were told what to do by Ford who stole olds invention
yes?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
and both of them stole benz' invention then
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
but benz didn't invent the assembly line. Ford didn't copy benz, he copied Olds because its what worked.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
but both of them copied benz by your logic
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
by the logic of the car existing because of the assembly line that Benz wasn't a part of?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
by the logic of the car existing, period
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
but nobody cared about shitty euro bicycles. whereas Olds invention kick started what would be associated as "the car" in modern practices.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
but you just said henry ford made the car so nobody cared about olds shitty assembly lines either, it doesnt add up
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
except Henry Ford cared about the assembly line, not some shitty euro bicycle. its your false equivalency that doesn't add up.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
bullshit
Mercedes 35 hp came before it
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
another irrelevant euro shitbox?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Cadillac Type 53 is where the clutch brake throttle layout comes from. Put that with an H pattern shift and we have the car as we know it.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>he copied Olds because its what worked.
By your own moronic logic that assembly line = first car the model T isn't the first car
You absolute self-owned fricking moron
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yea, it isn't the first car. technically its olds, Ford just refined it for the masses.
how did i self own if none of this came out of europe? why do europeans need to come to america to do anything worth a damn?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>To improve the design concept and to limit outside interference Ford had a “experimental room” walled off in one corner of the plant. Inside the experimental room only a few key employees were allowed to work full time, and fewer others were allowed to peek inside at the progress. The key employees who worked in the experimental room were engineer / draftsmen Joseph Galamb, Jules Hartenberger, Charles Balough, and Eugene Farkas. Henry Ford’s right hand man and fairly competent metallurgist / tool maker Childe Harold Wills ( he hated the name Childe and always signed his name C. Harold) was regularly in the room, and C.J Smith who fabricated parts for the new Ford. Equipment inside the third floor experimental room included a few drafting tables, a lathe, mill and other miscellaneous machine tools that ran off a line shaft mounted to the ceiling. There were two large black boards, and a small rocking chair for Henry Ford. The design team of Galamb, Farkas, Balough and Hartenberger were all Hungarian immigrants who frequently discussed the project in their home language. Galamb claimed that some calculations were done in metric and later converted to US measurement standards. Henry Ford was impressed by the group, and apparently did not mind them operating in their native tongue. In fact he is known to have said things like “let’s hear some of that dago talk and get some work done” when he thought they were not moving fast enough!. In any case their efforts revolutionized the car, and the results speak for themselves today.
ohnononono
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Henry Ford’s right hand man and fairly competent metallurgist / tool maker Childe Harold Wills
Good thing an American was in the room to tell the eurocucks how a car should be designed.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>ford made the car
Porsche had a AWD gas-electric hybrid in 1900 almost a decade before Ford "made" the car
Utter cope
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
some horse carriage shitbox not made on an assembly line.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I dont know if you're trolling or legitimately moronic but considering that Germany invented the car and mogs the shit out of America in the domain I could post endless German cars that are superior to the Model T and older as you move the goal posts in your coping and seething.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
they invented some cool horse carriages that no one outside of europe cared about. unlike Ford who stole Oldsmobile's idea. hardly superior if they weren't the revolution that came out of america.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
france invented the car, the oldest car running today is french and predates the benz motorwagen.
Why can't Ameritards differentiate between building cars and building factories? And even then they can't figure out who built a factory first.
Serious fricking moronation going on.
1983 was unironically one of the best years in the history of the WRC. Would I call the Group B era the peak? No, simply because of how many people got killed.
>No, simply because of how many people got killed.
anon that's what makes it even peaker
nta but even barring the psychological factor for the drivers themselves, it's such a useless waste of talent; even if it wasn't people like blomqvist and salonen dying, everyone in that series was the cream of the crop across the *world*
>the peak of a dangerous sport is not when it was the most dangerous
maybe watch a different league if you dont want to see blood and guts idk
>No, simply because of how many people got killed.
true, should have been at least 2 times as much.
>troony racing cars dressed up to look like real cars
No thanks, I'd much prefer to see REAL CARS racing, or if you want to race specially built tubeframe racing cars just race specially built tubeframe racing cars, don't turn them into trannies and pretend they're something else.
What is the appeal of a person wanting to be contrarian by posting baiting with a "hot" take?
Is it really a hot take to prefer production car based racing cars over silhouette style racing cars?
I'm certain there's plenty of boomers who loathe NASCAR for making the switch.
liking taxidermy """cars""" and pretending they're divine creations that can never be topped is the bigger contrarian hot take
Do you know what contrarian means?
>I'd much prefer to see REAL CARS racing
Lol. Lmao.
They were never "real" cars, in any series. Every team made adjustments to the gearing, engine, aero... That RS2000 will have a lot more done to it than any RS2000 you could buy off the lot.
>ummm sweaty those weren't real cars because they had a different diff ratio
Yeah but at least they actually had the engine and drive wheels in the same fricking place
?si=rvCmNu-QKcsCMYTT
yeah right
MST will make you a MK1 Ford Escort in any trim you'd like. If you wanted to Homologate a new MK1 Ford Escort rally car from them then you'd need to buy a few. They will all be road legal and therefore Real cars.
I agree. Peak racing. Not so fond of watching rally though. Too boring waiting for the cars, half an hour watching, then off to the next vantage point. Rather go to watch at a circuit
But the group b cars were literally sold to the public as production vehicles, so they are real cars.
Yeah sure they were buddy
...Do you not get what homologation specials are? Like the e30 m3, impreza wrx, mitshubishi evo, etc only being a thing because of group a homologation requirements?
might as well show the quattro sport too
But Group B only required 200 homologation units
and they had to be sold to the public as roadworthy cars, there's nothing about them that makes them less real, they are not comparable with sillouette racers that only have a bodyshell that resembles some production car.
Hell 200 is a higher numbers than many hypercars (like the pagani huyara, which was limited to 100 cars or so), and i don´t see them being any less of a "real car".
The road going porsche 962 group c cars (one of which was made to homologate the car for gt1 and troll the aco) are no less of a real car either.
>and they had to be sold to the public as roadworthy cars, there's nothing about them that makes them less real
I'll grant you that
>build 50
>pretend it's 200
>don't bother to make the 50 even fully functional
>bother to "sell" even fewer
>give it the same name as the real car
>"IT'S A REAL CAR BROS"
Which car specifically are you talking about? 205 t16 had at least 240 cars built, 40 of which were dedicated racers. Quattro sport reportedly had 224 cars built. Delta s4 was the only one we know that didn't achieve the 200 figure, as the competition was canceled before it could finish development, and while lancia had also fudged the production figures of the stratos by not reaching the 500 cars minimum, they did manage to build 207 lancia 037s.
>he doesn't know about the spaghettiBlack person trickery
EVERY manufacturer tricked the fia into accepting that they had built all 200 cars at first when they in fact hadn´t. These cars were fround the ground up designed, built and tested in less than 2 years, which was really fast even back then, asking them to build 200 versions of the car and sell them within that the same period of time was just unrealistic. They did went through with it over time because they didn´t want to suffer the humiliation of being disqualified from the competition (no guesses as to why lancia didn´t care about that with the delta s4), but that still means some really cool cars got made.
It's almost as if they weren't real cars
Peugeot actually made their cars, and made them very well. Out of all of the homologation cars, the 205 T16 had the highest quality, and wasn't just thrown together with leftover bolts and wood screws.
Delta S4 had ever so special fire extinguishers that had to be re-filled after every stage.
Are we ready to talk about ground effect yet?
Only one manufacturer did that, and it was on the 037.
The e30 m3, impreza wrx, mitshubishi evo were all actually made and sold in large numbers. They all shared the same basic or very similar monocoque chassis designs as the bog standard mass produced models. They all shared the same engine placement as the base models. The e30 shared the same drive wheels with the base model and the base impreza could be optioned with the same drive wheels.
If you'd paid attention to my posts you'd know I LIKE group 4 and group A homologation cars because they were real cars.
The pikes peak audi quattro was on a poster above my bed.
What I don't get is how in spite of the crazy engines and aero, it didn't take long for the much more restricted Group A cars to begin to outpace Group Bs.
well that can happen when you have to make good racing cars instead of putting a bigger and bigger turbo on a space frame shitbox
I am kinda sad that we never got to see Lancia ECV in action.
I guess this coincided with improvement of PC technology. Computers allowed them to optimize the shit out of their cars.
Rallying is the purest expression of motoring in general.
For me, it's 3.5L Group C regs. The cars were essentially aero-optimised F1 cars running 5 figure RPM V8s and 10s that looked great and were the fastest cars of their era.
Shame they were too expensive and the racing wasn't so great. But the cars were GOAT.
>it's 3.5L Group C regs.
Literally only 1 good season. Didn't even win lemans that year. Solid pass.
Peugeot 905 won twice.
>Peugeot 905 won twice.
Not in 1991 which was the only good season for the formula. After then when Peugeot won, nobody cared about Group C.
1988 Trans Am race was kino. The Audi 200 Quattro Trans Am was so good, America banned it from racing cuz the Americans didn't like losing so much. :^)
>1988 Trans Am race was kino.
It was good cuz seeing mutts getting butthurt over losing to Germans since WW2 was hilarious. But it wasn't just the Americans who grew to dislike Audi. In the 1980s in Germany, the DTM series banned turbo engines, effectively preventing Audi's 200 from dominating the series. Audi's answer was the naturally aspirated V8 Quattro. One of my most favorite cars I ever owned was a 1990 Audi V8 quattro 5spd. In 1990, Audi ran that car in the DTM series against BMW M3s and Mercedes 190s. Initially, BMW and Mercedes laughed at the idea that Audi would run a large luxury sedan against their sports-oriented compact sedans. The laughing didn't last long as the V8 Quattro driven by Stuck started winning races and eventually Stuck took the Championship. Not pleased that Audi had so easily circumvented the turbo engine ban to bring Audi's dominance to road racing, BMW and Mercedes went back to their lobbying efforts to gain a competitive advantage, and they convinced the governing body to impose a weight penalty on Audi. Rather than being defeated by the political wrangling of its Deutsch rivals, Audi went back to the workshop and cleverly found a way to twist the V8 Quattro's crank shaft to convert it from a cross-plane configuration to a flat plane arrangement, which increased the peak rev range and the overall power. Audi again dominated the series, until BMW and Mercedes lobbied to have the V8 Quattro declared illegal, which they finally succeeded at doing. For me, the V8 Quattro ranks up with the original quattro design and the LeMans TDI cars, as perhaps the best proof of the ingenuity and prowess of Audi's engineering group. When storied rivals like Mercedes and BMW have to resort to white collar advocates to take down their competition, you know you're doing something right.
For me its the 155 V6 TI
speaking of prototypes, no prototype was more dominate than pic related. not even the fastest cars from F1 Style Group C could touch it. its lap records are only slightly slower than the Audi Prototypes that would race in the 2000s, which suggest it would've still been competitive with modern race cars on modern rubber.
>not even the fastest cars from F1 Style Group C could touch it
That's loaded statement. It only ever raced against one of the 3.5L Gr.C cars which was already a year old and saw no real development after the mid-season test that year. TWR USA didn't even want to use it, but they were able win two races in which they were racing against both Eagles plus one more race in which they classified higher than them.
america shat on Europe so hard with the Viper that it received far more ballast than the quattro ever did and it wasn't even AWD.
and it STILL ended up lapping the entire field with 900 lbs of ballast. it was shitting on AWD cars like the quattro and R34 GTR, too. it even b***h slapped the Mclaren F1 multiple times.
>Zakspeed is a motor racing team from Germany.
It needs German guys to achieve it.
The audi quattro needed american engineering in the form of the Torsen differential used in its AWD. germencucks can't make cool cars on their own.
Mutts needed german invention, such as the car. muttcucks can't make cool cars on their own.
But Henry ford made the car. no one cared about europe's shitty bicycles.
>two hungarian yuropoors made the car for henry ford
ftfy
i didn't know Childe Harold Wills (MAIN ENGINEER) was hungarian.
lol, lmao even
>Although credit for the development of the assembly line belongs to Ransom E. Olds, with the first mass-produced automobile, the Oldsmobile Curved Dash, having begun in 1901
el em eff ah oh.
>assembly line is car
lmao
>the very thing that makes the model T, the model T
yes?
>henry ford made the car
>no it was 4 europoors actually while mutts sat in the corner
>b-but muh assembly line
lmfao
>no it was actually oldsmobile while eurocucks were told what to do by Ford who stole olds invention
yes?
and both of them stole benz' invention then
but benz didn't invent the assembly line. Ford didn't copy benz, he copied Olds because its what worked.
but both of them copied benz by your logic
by the logic of the car existing because of the assembly line that Benz wasn't a part of?
by the logic of the car existing, period
but nobody cared about shitty euro bicycles. whereas Olds invention kick started what would be associated as "the car" in modern practices.
but you just said henry ford made the car so nobody cared about olds shitty assembly lines either, it doesnt add up
except Henry Ford cared about the assembly line, not some shitty euro bicycle. its your false equivalency that doesn't add up.
bullshit
Mercedes 35 hp came before it
another irrelevant euro shitbox?
Cadillac Type 53 is where the clutch brake throttle layout comes from. Put that with an H pattern shift and we have the car as we know it.
>he copied Olds because its what worked.
By your own moronic logic that assembly line = first car the model T isn't the first car
You absolute self-owned fricking moron
Yea, it isn't the first car. technically its olds, Ford just refined it for the masses.
how did i self own if none of this came out of europe? why do europeans need to come to america to do anything worth a damn?
>To improve the design concept and to limit outside interference Ford had a “experimental room” walled off in one corner of the plant. Inside the experimental room only a few key employees were allowed to work full time, and fewer others were allowed to peek inside at the progress. The key employees who worked in the experimental room were engineer / draftsmen Joseph Galamb, Jules Hartenberger, Charles Balough, and Eugene Farkas. Henry Ford’s right hand man and fairly competent metallurgist / tool maker Childe Harold Wills ( he hated the name Childe and always signed his name C. Harold) was regularly in the room, and C.J Smith who fabricated parts for the new Ford. Equipment inside the third floor experimental room included a few drafting tables, a lathe, mill and other miscellaneous machine tools that ran off a line shaft mounted to the ceiling. There were two large black boards, and a small rocking chair for Henry Ford. The design team of Galamb, Farkas, Balough and Hartenberger were all Hungarian immigrants who frequently discussed the project in their home language. Galamb claimed that some calculations were done in metric and later converted to US measurement standards. Henry Ford was impressed by the group, and apparently did not mind them operating in their native tongue. In fact he is known to have said things like “let’s hear some of that dago talk and get some work done” when he thought they were not moving fast enough!. In any case their efforts revolutionized the car, and the results speak for themselves today.
ohnononono
>Henry Ford’s right hand man and fairly competent metallurgist / tool maker Childe Harold Wills
Good thing an American was in the room to tell the eurocucks how a car should be designed.
>ford made the car
Porsche had a AWD gas-electric hybrid in 1900 almost a decade before Ford "made" the car
Utter cope
some horse carriage shitbox not made on an assembly line.
I dont know if you're trolling or legitimately moronic but considering that Germany invented the car and mogs the shit out of America in the domain I could post endless German cars that are superior to the Model T and older as you move the goal posts in your coping and seething.
they invented some cool horse carriages that no one outside of europe cared about. unlike Ford who stole Oldsmobile's idea. hardly superior if they weren't the revolution that came out of america.
france invented the car, the oldest car running today is french and predates the benz motorwagen.
>rally racing
>it's not actually racing, it's just a time trial
Peak motorsports is happening right now, but contrarians and pseudo-boomer homosexuals love to hate it.
In 20 years they'll look back at current WEC and say "VGH... those were the days!".
Seeing cadillac in the top class again after 20 decades is exciting. i will be watching Le mans every year so long as they're there.
I fricking love Ferrari at WEC, speciaally after their victory at LeMans last year, but Imola was just... awful.
Le Man 24 hours? When?
>using BoP to manufacture wins
Only normies, casuals, and tourists enjoy this.
Why can't Ameritards differentiate between building cars and building factories? And even then they can't figure out who built a factory first.
Serious fricking moronation going on.
But oldsmobile built cars on his assembly line not just a factory?
>Serious fricking moronation going on.
yea, its you.
i love how this all started over europeans getting asshurt over the viper and trying to take credit for it because they drove it.
>class "wins"
who mentioned class wins?
Group b is truly wonderful but it isn't wheel to wheel. I prefer figure 8 shitbox racing
Rallycross is where Group B cars went to die.
Proper wheel to wheel short circuit racing.
all cars from 80s/90s look so good, regardless of the manufacturer, especially rally cars ofc
what happened after like 2005, why are all cars so bland, curved, spherical
they suck shit
Bonhams recently sold one of these "not a proper car"
>the one left in existence
>9001 gorillion dollars
>"wow those group B rally cars are so cool!"
>one left in existence
Wow, they must keep repainting and changing the license plate of the same car.