>great car
it's mid bruh.
the suspension is all wacky.
(see the A-Arm bushings)
ABS doesn't work correctly if you put any tire with any amount of grip.
engine is not slow, but not really fast either.
looks are 'meh'
car isn't easy to work on.
>mid bruh
You must be 18 or older to post here >suspension is wacky
Doesn't matter how annoyed you are with routine maintenance, there are cars with worse service procedures that wear components faster >ABS doesn't work correctly if...
Why aren't you threshold braking to begin with? >engine is not slow but not very fast
We're talking about a sports car from 20 years ago. Of course grass is green. >car isn't easy to work on
Again, its not horrible to work on either. Sure its not a miata, but there's stuff thats easy and stuff thats hard on it. The good thing is z's are pretty reliable and its not often you're replacing anything huge
I would say compared to what its contemporaries were like, and what choices we have now, its good. The 370z is just objectively better
I think it's a pretty good car, you have to bear in mind they were built at a price point of $30,000 dollars or the equivalent of $45-50,000 today and they were about as fast as Evos and STIs of that period, which were remarkable cars.
I saw the gears and gasoline 350z build and it sold me on them. They have great steering feel and can be dead reliable compared to turbo cars. And the engine is "just right" it has more horsepower than the middleweight cars (S2000, E36M/E46/E92, RX8, Newer Miatas) but not a ton that'll break shit when you run it hard.
I'm glad DA hates Nissans because between Z33s and Z34s I have 20 years of sub-3500lbs N/A FR Sports Cars to choose from
it's obvious you've never actually modified and raced any of the Z cars you fricking dumb ass.
the A-Arm bushing designs are horrible.
also,
you don't threshold break ABS systems.
people who only brake in a straight line are Fricking slow as hell.
That's where the 350/370z ABS sucks.
it can't handle performance 200tw tires or any kind of trail braking.
But the worst part of it is the ABS will just randomly work and then randomly not.
some of the best motoring toge battles have had Z car crashes from that stupid ABS.
that's why people swap the E46 ABS into Z cars.
I wouldn't call it a bad car but, as the kids say; it's MID.
>the best possible suspension geometry
but does it then equal the best possible suspension?
People don't buy 80s-00s jdm cars because they're looking for the best performance. They're buying them because it's cars they grew up wanting but couldn't afford as a high school/college student. And now they can because they have a big boy job now. Except all the people who could afford them back then raped them.
It's no question that cars made in the past 10 years are much faster and capable
lol no
no one cared about the 350/370z, it was always supra, m3, gt-r, etc.
the only reason they're even discussed is because they're so unpopular, they can be had now for cheap as budget entry level cars
>no one cared about the 350/370z, it was always supra, m3, gt-r, etc.
You're either a zoomer or you were very disconnected from actual car culture in the 00s.
People don't buy 80s-00s jdm cars because they're looking for the best performance. They're buying them because it's cars they grew up wanting but couldn't afford as a high school/college student. And now they can because they have a big boy job now. Except all the people who could afford them back then raped them.
It's no question that cars made in the past 10 years are much faster and capable
the 370z is significantly better than the 350z in every way: >better engine >less weight >more reliable >MUCH nicer interior >subjectively better aesthetics e.g.
Now that models that are about as clean as each other are going for the same price, there's no reason to get a 350z anymore
Gen 1 BRZ/86 when they get cheap enough
N52 328i/330i if you're okay with a car weighing 3300-3400lbs and starting at 200-210whp
Fiesta STs are getting cheap used too.
S197 Mustangs aren't as bad as people made them out to be and S550s are still expensive
ND Miatas: Great looking and fun little cars with relatively low sales figures (~70k). The NB and NC are the least desirable and you can already see NA prices edging up. I think ND will be looked back on with the same fondness as the NA, but with 1/5th the sales volume. >BMW 2 series: The steering feel is awful and it has a stupid delay valve on the clutch pedal, but it's better than a lot of cars coming out these days and is cheap enough where many will get trashed. I sold mine awhile ago and it's worth $10k more already.
Toyota 86: Good, cheap, fun car. This combination means kids will trash 90% of them and the few that remain will be expensive.
Generall I think lightweight sports cars and certain expensive cars maintain their value because car weights are like inflation (it only goes up), so you have to buy older cars to get light weight. Pigfat cars generally don't maintain value, because why buy old when you can get a new one with more horsepower, better laptimes, and a warranty?
NBs imo are as desirable as NA. They're cashing hard in on the cute factor that's missed by NCs, and often cost as much as a decent NC1 which is a little silly because everything on a 2004-5 NB 1.8 VVT swaps onto a 1990 NA 1.6 and vice versa. 86s have fragile engines so what's left is gonna go up, I actually don't think they hold up that well to hardcore track use, even the FA20s.
The BMWs aren't gonna hold value because N55s like to self destruct and get expensive with high miles. B58 Gen 1 cars like M2/340i might be better.
Most cars go through major price dumps when they get too old to be financed at a reasonable price and most dealers stop buying/selling them. The first price drop ofc being when the factory warranty ends and most lease cars are returned to the dealer.
>Using the lightest possible S15 spec vs the heaviest Z33 spec
Z33s were usually 1450kg. It was the love child of Mizuno just like the GTRs and Silvias were. Why wouldn't it be better than the older cars? Nissan tested the Z33 faster than the R34 GTR during development.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
you're gonna have a hard time finding anyone who thinks the z33 is a better car than the s15 or the 34gtr and I hate silvias.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Honestly if they were both brand new cars I would agree. But 20 years later, you can buy five Z33s in better condition to every S15 Spec R. And the 350Z is going to be way less rustier and being way more reliable because SR20s break often when you abuse them and the sheetmetal in R34/S15s is worse than even the older cars. The way some fanboys act you would think they're talking about the worst car on the planet, even though the same guy designed and engineered all three cars
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Holy cope batman. The z33 can be in as good a condition as it likes it's still a mediocre, unremarkable, utterly forgettable car that nobody cares about. It's too fat and non-turbo to be good at what the s15 does and it's not half the car the 34 gtr is. The same guy might have been involved but they're built for different goals.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
This is the nip that designed the Z33. If you call the Z33 unremarkable then you're also calling the GTR and Silvia unremarkable, both his creations. Hes not going to make the new car slower than the older car.
More Zs for me.
SR20s are shit anyways, go spin a rod bearing or break a rocker, overrated meme engine that you can't even find anymore second hand cause they all blew the frick up.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
We've been over this I hate silvias and the same guy being involved in all 3 cars doesn't make the z33 a good car. The s15 and gtr had a purpose the z33 is just a parts-bin bean-counter car that disappointed the frick out of everyone especially Z fans.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Holy cope batman. The z33 can be in as good a condition as it likes it's still a mediocre, unremarkable, utterly forgettable car that nobody cares about. It's too fat and non-turbo to be good at what the s15 does and it's not half the car the 34 gtr is. The same guy might have been involved but they're built for different goals.
We've been over this I hate silvias and the same guy being involved in all 3 cars doesn't make the z33 a good car. The s15 and gtr had a purpose the z33 is just a parts-bin bean-counter car that disappointed the frick out of everyone especially Z fans.
seething really hard, where did you get gapped by a 350Z?
I know it's not exactly the same, but I had an 06 g35 coupe that was a pretty decent car. I always hear people claiming they're shitty cars but >never had a major issue or left me stranded >worst thing was a belt tensioner replacement, otherwise normal maintenance >had 220k miles when I hit a deer and smoked it >muffler started to rust out, but that's to be expected for the mileage
Having staggered size tires was kind of a b***h too, but I had a winter set and summer set I'd swap out. Did surprisingly well in the midwest winters (albeit with top tier snow tires).
Imo, the interior was far better looking than the Z. Doesn't hold the same "fast and furious tuner bro poser" stereotype either. If you keep it stock that is. I've seen plenty of Gs that have been absolutely molested/trashed.
Maybe look for a g35 if you can't find a Z. Seems like far more Z cars have been through years of high schoolers wheeling them around by the time they end up for sale compared to Gs.
My G35s(HR) and 350z (both 6spd) are nearly identical in a straight line. The Brembos are miles better in the mountain passes, but the G is 1000% more quiet & comfortable
It's not a muscle car it's a parts-bin car thrown together by the accountants at nissan.
It's a G35 coupe/skyline coupe with the exact same mechanicals but slightly different body styling It's fricking embarrassing.
>what do you think the skyline was anon
Is this some kind of moron question? The rb26 was only fitted to GT-Rs and aftermarket specials like the stagea autech. The skyline GT-R was built for one purpose, to win races.
Frankly I'm puzzled why you would bring up the skyline to defend the z33 it's a losing move every time.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
That just makes it a parts bin car with a special engine that you wouldn't have been able to afford brand new or even used
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>r34 gt-r is a parts bin car >engine and drivetrain unique to one vehicle
uh oh moron alert. >you wouldn't have been able to afford brand new or even used
33 and 32 gt-rs were cheap as dirt during the 34s run. About 15k usd or even less.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Lest we forget that the g35 was known as the skyline 350gt in Japan. Only skyline around after the r34. R35 isn't even a skyline, it's just "Nissan GTR"
And not all skylines are GTRs.
Now I'm not a huge fan of people putting 350gt skyline badges on g35s, but it's not wrong.
It's not a muscle car it's a parts-bin car thrown together by the accountants at nissan.
It's a G35 coupe/skyline coupe with the exact same mechanicals but slightly different body styling It's fricking embarrassing.
quarter mile times are not a denial that the z33 is a parts bin car. Z fans were expecting a new Z car but all they got was a g35 coupe/skyline coupe with uglier styling.
camaros are great cars, but the one you posted costs 3-7 thousand more on the used market for comparable quality examples
that's not really worth it for a marginally better time on a single track
>within a half second of a 15 year old car
KEK now lets see the version that doesn't cost $18k for a 5 year old base model
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
[...]
Holy shit. Am I REALLY seeing a car that can match the CHADmaro after all these years of it taking heaping shits on EVERY car in the world. Is the Z actually, legitimately a CHADMARO level car?
>after all these gears of it taking heaping shits on every car in the world
I think the funniest thing about the camaro is it literally was literally decades behind other cars for the longest time until the final generation where gm put their dying breath into it before canceling it after not even 10 years. Like every camaro fan here cannot be made to mention a single previous gen of the camaro for any reason, and the gen they idolize wasn't even a good car till post covid when its prices got inflated and production slowed. The best part is the irl owner base is chock full of zl1 body kit swaps on v6 rs's and people claiming a 4 cylinder camaro is a worthwhile buy
And the funniest part is none of the owners here actually track their cars or do any form of motorsports in it despite the car being insanely capable of it. When asked, they either claim they don't have the money or have events near them
I actually dont hate the car itself but the owners because of the stupid shit they are post on DA. GM is unironically a extremely capable car company and when the stars align they make decent cars (C4/C5 Vette, Cobalt SS Turbo, even the 5th Gen 1LE was a good car when you found them for sale) but frick the owners are annoying. Worse than shills they're just autistic moron spammers.
>all this fricking cope and mental gymnastic because the nigsan Z can't beat a 4 cylinder camaro on all seasons despite having more power
top kek
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Top kek is still shilling an impala powered camaro you'll never own after your ex gf was nutted in by a z driver lmao
>within a half second of a 15 year old car
KEK now lets see the version that doesn't cost $18k for a 5 year old base model
Holy shit. Am I REALLY seeing a car that can match the CHADmaro after all these years of it taking heaping shits on EVERY car in the world. Is the Z actually, legitimately a CHADMARO level car?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>after all these gears of it taking heaping shits on every car in the world
I think the funniest thing about the camaro is it literally was literally decades behind other cars for the longest time until the final generation where gm put their dying breath into it before canceling it after not even 10 years. Like every camaro fan here cannot be made to mention a single previous gen of the camaro for any reason, and the gen they idolize wasn't even a good car till post covid when its prices got inflated and production slowed. The best part is the irl owner base is chock full of zl1 body kit swaps on v6 rs's and people claiming a 4 cylinder camaro is a worthwhile buy
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
And the funniest part is none of the owners here actually track their cars or do any form of motorsports in it despite the car being insanely capable of it. When asked, they either claim they don't have the money or have events near them
I actually dont hate the car itself but the owners because of the stupid shit they are post on DA. GM is unironically a extremely capable car company and when the stars align they make decent cars (C4/C5 Vette, Cobalt SS Turbo, even the 5th Gen 1LE was a good car when you found them for sale) but frick the owners are annoying. Worse than shills they're just autistic moron spammers.
>great car
it's mid bruh.
the suspension is all wacky.
(see the A-Arm bushings)
ABS doesn't work correctly if you put any tire with any amount of grip.
engine is not slow, but not really fast either.
looks are 'meh'
car isn't easy to work on.
wouldn't say it's bad, but not really good either
>mid bruh
You must be 18 or older to post here
>suspension is wacky
Doesn't matter how annoyed you are with routine maintenance, there are cars with worse service procedures that wear components faster
>ABS doesn't work correctly if...
Why aren't you threshold braking to begin with?
>engine is not slow but not very fast
We're talking about a sports car from 20 years ago. Of course grass is green.
>car isn't easy to work on
Again, its not horrible to work on either. Sure its not a miata, but there's stuff thats easy and stuff thats hard on it. The good thing is z's are pretty reliable and its not often you're replacing anything huge
I would say compared to what its contemporaries were like, and what choices we have now, its good. The 370z is just objectively better
I think it's a pretty good car, you have to bear in mind they were built at a price point of $30,000 dollars or the equivalent of $45-50,000 today and they were about as fast as Evos and STIs of that period, which were remarkable cars.
I saw the gears and gasoline 350z build and it sold me on them. They have great steering feel and can be dead reliable compared to turbo cars. And the engine is "just right" it has more horsepower than the middleweight cars (S2000, E36M/E46/E92, RX8, Newer Miatas) but not a ton that'll break shit when you run it hard.
I'm glad DA hates Nissans because between Z33s and Z34s I have 20 years of sub-3500lbs N/A FR Sports Cars to choose from
it's obvious you've never actually modified and raced any of the Z cars you fricking dumb ass.
the A-Arm bushing designs are horrible.
also,
you don't threshold break ABS systems.
people who only brake in a straight line are Fricking slow as hell.
That's where the 350/370z ABS sucks.
it can't handle performance 200tw tires or any kind of trail braking.
But the worst part of it is the ABS will just randomly work and then randomly not.
some of the best motoring toge battles have had Z car crashes from that stupid ABS.
that's why people swap the E46 ABS into Z cars.
I wouldn't call it a bad car but, as the kids say; it's MID.
>threshold braking on a car with ABS
go on, my dear internet tough guy, tell us how you can threshold brake on a car with hypersensitive ABS
>the suspension is all wacky
double wishbone front, multilink rear
a.k.a the best possible suspension geometry
>looks are 'meh'
it's one of the best designs of the last 40 years
>car isn't easy to work on
it is, but a wrenchlet wouldn't know
>the best possible suspension geometry
but does it then equal the best possible suspension?
lol no
no one cared about the 350/370z, it was always supra, m3, gt-r, etc.
the only reason they're even discussed is because they're so unpopular, they can be had now for cheap as budget entry level cars
>no one cared about the 350/370z, it was always supra, m3, gt-r, etc.
You're either a zoomer or you were very disconnected from actual car culture in the 00s.
People don't buy 80s-00s jdm cars because they're looking for the best performance. They're buying them because it's cars they grew up wanting but couldn't afford as a high school/college student. And now they can because they have a big boy job now. Except all the people who could afford them back then raped them.
It's no question that cars made in the past 10 years are much faster and capable
tl;dr, it's something zoomers wouldn't understand.
people hate on the 370z but I think it looks much better
the 370z is significantly better than the 350z in every way:
>better engine
>less weight
>more reliable
>MUCH nicer interior
>subjectively better aesthetics e.g.
Now that models that are about as clean as each other are going for the same price, there's no reason to get a 350z anymore
I always thought they were ugly like the audi tt
What's the next car people are going to miss out on and then claim is awesome sauce?
NC Miata E82?
Honestly that's about all thats left.
Gen 1 BRZ/86 when they get cheap enough
N52 328i/330i if you're okay with a car weighing 3300-3400lbs and starting at 200-210whp
Fiesta STs are getting cheap used too.
S197 Mustangs aren't as bad as people made them out to be and S550s are still expensive
ND Miatas: Great looking and fun little cars with relatively low sales figures (~70k). The NB and NC are the least desirable and you can already see NA prices edging up. I think ND will be looked back on with the same fondness as the NA, but with 1/5th the sales volume.
>BMW 2 series: The steering feel is awful and it has a stupid delay valve on the clutch pedal, but it's better than a lot of cars coming out these days and is cheap enough where many will get trashed. I sold mine awhile ago and it's worth $10k more already.
Toyota 86: Good, cheap, fun car. This combination means kids will trash 90% of them and the few that remain will be expensive.
Generall I think lightweight sports cars and certain expensive cars maintain their value because car weights are like inflation (it only goes up), so you have to buy older cars to get light weight. Pigfat cars generally don't maintain value, because why buy old when you can get a new one with more horsepower, better laptimes, and a warranty?
NBs imo are as desirable as NA. They're cashing hard in on the cute factor that's missed by NCs, and often cost as much as a decent NC1 which is a little silly because everything on a 2004-5 NB 1.8 VVT swaps onto a 1990 NA 1.6 and vice versa. 86s have fragile engines so what's left is gonna go up, I actually don't think they hold up that well to hardcore track use, even the FA20s.
The BMWs aren't gonna hold value because N55s like to self destruct and get expensive with high miles. B58 Gen 1 cars like M2/340i might be better.
Most cars go through major price dumps when they get too old to be financed at a reasonable price and most dealers stop buying/selling them. The first price drop ofc being when the factory warranty ends and most lease cars are returned to the dealer.
Not really. It's basically S15 silvia performance but fatter, uglier, and egg-shaped. Also, the 370z is better and clean ones are still plentiful.
350/70z have a wishbone front end, Silvia are McPherson. VQ is more reliable than SR.
>uglier
ignored this point
>fatter
1240kg vs 1640kg
ignored this one too
>egg-shaped
didn't even try, lmao
>Using the lightest possible S15 spec vs the heaviest Z33 spec
Z33s were usually 1450kg. It was the love child of Mizuno just like the GTRs and Silvias were. Why wouldn't it be better than the older cars? Nissan tested the Z33 faster than the R34 GTR during development.
you're gonna have a hard time finding anyone who thinks the z33 is a better car than the s15 or the 34gtr and I hate silvias.
Honestly if they were both brand new cars I would agree. But 20 years later, you can buy five Z33s in better condition to every S15 Spec R. And the 350Z is going to be way less rustier and being way more reliable because SR20s break often when you abuse them and the sheetmetal in R34/S15s is worse than even the older cars. The way some fanboys act you would think they're talking about the worst car on the planet, even though the same guy designed and engineered all three cars
Holy cope batman. The z33 can be in as good a condition as it likes it's still a mediocre, unremarkable, utterly forgettable car that nobody cares about. It's too fat and non-turbo to be good at what the s15 does and it's not half the car the 34 gtr is. The same guy might have been involved but they're built for different goals.
This is the nip that designed the Z33. If you call the Z33 unremarkable then you're also calling the GTR and Silvia unremarkable, both his creations. Hes not going to make the new car slower than the older car.
More Zs for me.
SR20s are shit anyways, go spin a rod bearing or break a rocker, overrated meme engine that you can't even find anymore second hand cause they all blew the frick up.
We've been over this I hate silvias and the same guy being involved in all 3 cars doesn't make the z33 a good car. The s15 and gtr had a purpose the z33 is just a parts-bin bean-counter car that disappointed the frick out of everyone especially Z fans.
seething really hard, where did you get gapped by a 350Z?
>>egg-shape
Completely Subjective, I actually like the Egg design language as it’s reminiscent of Audi TT / Porsche 993. It’s peak “Gen X Soft Club” aesthetic.
https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Gen_X_Soft_Club
>fatter
Weight will increase with a more sophisticated suspension type and with increased body rigidity. Safer too.
>Nissan 350Z completed a lap of Tsukuba in 1 minute and 7.9 seconds.
>Silvia S15 Spec R Aero finished a lap of Tsukuba in 1 minute and 7.7 seconds.
Only 0.2 second difference between a base 350z vs a top spec S15.
S15’s are all used up and cost a premium, 350z are cheap and plentiful still.
Get off my board little boy.
oh wow, redditor is telling me how a 2000’s v6 being slower than 1990’s I4 is actually a good thing!
Bus rider. You must be over 18y/o to post here.
I know it's not exactly the same, but I had an 06 g35 coupe that was a pretty decent car. I always hear people claiming they're shitty cars but
>never had a major issue or left me stranded
>worst thing was a belt tensioner replacement, otherwise normal maintenance
>had 220k miles when I hit a deer and smoked it
>muffler started to rust out, but that's to be expected for the mileage
Having staggered size tires was kind of a b***h too, but I had a winter set and summer set I'd swap out. Did surprisingly well in the midwest winters (albeit with top tier snow tires).
Imo, the interior was far better looking than the Z. Doesn't hold the same "fast and furious tuner bro poser" stereotype either. If you keep it stock that is. I've seen plenty of Gs that have been absolutely molested/trashed.
Maybe look for a g35 if you can't find a Z. Seems like far more Z cars have been through years of high schoolers wheeling them around by the time they end up for sale compared to Gs.
My G35s(HR) and 350z (both 6spd) are nearly identical in a straight line. The Brembos are miles better in the mountain passes, but the G is 1000% more quiet & comfortable
>v6 muscle car (Japanese) :O
>v6 muscle car (American) >:(
It's not a muscle car it's a parts-bin car thrown together by the accountants at nissan.
It's a G35 coupe/skyline coupe with the exact same mechanicals but slightly different body styling It's fricking embarrassing.
what do you think the skyline was anon
or the silvia being the same damn car from 1989 to 2002 other than panels
>what do you think the skyline was anon
Is this some kind of moron question? The rb26 was only fitted to GT-Rs and aftermarket specials like the stagea autech. The skyline GT-R was built for one purpose, to win races.
Frankly I'm puzzled why you would bring up the skyline to defend the z33 it's a losing move every time.
That just makes it a parts bin car with a special engine that you wouldn't have been able to afford brand new or even used
>r34 gt-r is a parts bin car
>engine and drivetrain unique to one vehicle
uh oh moron alert.
>you wouldn't have been able to afford brand new or even used
33 and 32 gt-rs were cheap as dirt during the 34s run. About 15k usd or even less.
Lest we forget that the g35 was known as the skyline 350gt in Japan. Only skyline around after the r34. R35 isn't even a skyline, it's just "Nissan GTR"
And not all skylines are GTRs.
Now I'm not a huge fan of people putting 350gt skyline badges on g35s, but it's not wrong.
>Accountants
Lol good one.
15 years ago it was blame the engineers. Now its blame the accountants. Stop parroting other people and think for yourself
embarrassing tbqhwyfamalam
quarter mile times are not a denial that the z33 is a parts bin car. Z fans were expecting a new Z car but all they got was a g35 coupe/skyline coupe with uglier styling.
camaros are great cars, but the one you posted costs 3-7 thousand more on the used market for comparable quality examples
that's not really worth it for a marginally better time on a single track
>within a half second of a 15 year old car
KEK now lets see the version that doesn't cost $18k for a 5 year old base model
>all this fricking cope and mental gymnastic because the nigsan Z can't beat a 4 cylinder camaro on all seasons despite having more power
top kek
Top kek is still shilling an impala powered camaro you'll never own after your ex gf was nutted in by a z driver lmao
Holy shit. Am I REALLY seeing a car that can match the CHADmaro after all these years of it taking heaping shits on EVERY car in the world. Is the Z actually, legitimately a CHADMARO level car?
>after all these gears of it taking heaping shits on every car in the world
I think the funniest thing about the camaro is it literally was literally decades behind other cars for the longest time until the final generation where gm put their dying breath into it before canceling it after not even 10 years. Like every camaro fan here cannot be made to mention a single previous gen of the camaro for any reason, and the gen they idolize wasn't even a good car till post covid when its prices got inflated and production slowed. The best part is the irl owner base is chock full of zl1 body kit swaps on v6 rs's and people claiming a 4 cylinder camaro is a worthwhile buy
And the funniest part is none of the owners here actually track their cars or do any form of motorsports in it despite the car being insanely capable of it. When asked, they either claim they don't have the money or have events near them
I actually dont hate the car itself but the owners because of the stupid shit they are post on DA. GM is unironically a extremely capable car company and when the stars align they make decent cars (C4/C5 Vette, Cobalt SS Turbo, even the 5th Gen 1LE was a good car when you found them for sale) but frick the owners are annoying. Worse than shills they're just autistic moron spammers.
Compare the new Camaro vs the 400z
oh wait
>no one ITT owns a Z, new edge mustang gt, i4 turbo camaro, or v6 camaro
>yet they insist on arguing over them
it's a hard fight for second place
Yeah, okay Mr. Third Place rentastar.
you must be new here
i havent seen a single owner who isnt a massive homosexual to begin with.
There's just no reason to get a Nissan except JDM basedfacing when you can get a Boxster/Cayman for the same price.
Z and Skyline are based, Camaro is gay Barbie car trash
The type they make in Stuttgart:
- https://www.classic.com/m/nissan/z-car/350z/
- https://www.classic.com/m/porsche/boxster/